Adding Tesla Solar in Texas

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Dr. J

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#42
The CoOp is 'owned' by the members supposedly.
My point about paying for the infrastructure you use is that you do not own it and you never will. The utility does. You do use it for sure. If you don't need it, you can disconnect and you will not miss it.
Think of it as a public street. You don't own it and you never will but you have agreed to pay for it's construction and maintenance so you can use it any time you want.
No, you (and I) own that, too, in a collective known as "We the people." Just like a co-op member is part owner of the co-op.
 

PNWmisty

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#43
That is an interesting idea - if you add the Powerwall as well, what happens if you just have the electrical service disconnected?
It's not uncommon for a jurisdiction to have laws that allow residential properties to be declared "unfit for human habitation" if there is no grid connection and/or sewer. Which effectively prevents people from going off-grid. I could only agree with these laws if they had an exception and a definition for acceptable forms of self-supplied power and/or sewage handling.
 

Dr. J

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#44
They have a 10 year, Unlimited Cycle warrenty and a 70% capacity guarantee during that time.

There really isn't a payoff for these where I live. They are really a house backup generator, that allows solar production to continue.
I am still wrapping my head around doing this part of it.
Some guys have boats. Some guys have guns. Some guys have Girlfriends.
So maybe this is my toy (along with the 3). I don't know. I go back and forth. :rolleyes:o_O
CoServ allows net metering of the full retail rate
From this FAQ page, it appears you have full net metering on a monthly billing basis at retail rates. You're not me (lucky you!), but if I had this opportunity, I would run the numbers on my monthly electrical consumption vs. monthly expected solar generation over a 12-month period and try to match them (by sizing the solar system) as closely as possible. Then, again just me talking, I would dispense with the idea of the Powerwall, unless I really thought it would be a useful backup in case of an outage. In your (or in my theoretical) situation, the Powerwall will never make economic sense, given a properly sized system and full net metering at retail. YMMV. Sorry to be a buzzkill....can I interest you in buying my boat? :) At any rate, the solar system should be a slam dunk. Well done!
 

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#45
That is an interesting idea - if you add the Powerwall as well, what happens if you just have the electrical service disconnected?
You are not allowed to go off the grid. I don't know how that is legal but you have to be connected. But like I mentioned earlier, my boy says just don't pay the bill then you are off grid :tearsofjoy:
 

LUXMAN

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#46
From this FAQ page, it appears you have full net metering on a monthly billing basis at retail rates. You're not me (lucky you!), but if I had this opportunity, I would run the numbers on my monthly electrical consumption vs. monthly expected solar generation over a 12-month period and try to match them (by sizing the solar system) as closely as possible. Then, again just me talking, I would dispense with the idea of the Powerwall, unless I really thought it would be a useful backup in case of an outage. In your (or in my theoretical) situation, the Powerwall will never make economic sense, given a properly sized system and full net metering at retail. YMMV. Sorry to be a buzzkill....can I interest you in buying my boat? :) At any rate, the solar system should be a slam dunk. Well done!
That is what we have done. Initially we were at 70% because it would be 100% some months then never go over and give away electricity. But we ended up sizing to 99.88% (cuz you cant go over 100%, they wont let you). So we overproduce in the spring and fall and just a bit under in the summer.
So even with the powerwalls, I may still pay a small bill in the summer.

With no $ reason, I guess we are looking at
1. Do I need a backup system?
- what are odds of things changing in reliability over the next 30 years (solar life) or 10-15
(battery life)
2. what benefit does it provide? Green benefits?
 

rluciano

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#48
adding it ot my homeowners policy will add about $9.25/month. But if we get a big hail storm as we tend to do here, I will get Fresh panels :) that probably produce more energy.
I wouldn’t count on it. I have had solar for 11 years and 9-10 years ago, we had a BIG hailstorm. Bigger than baseball sized hail. Shattered two skylights, broke many concrete roof tiles, no problems with the solar panels.
 

LUXMAN

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#49
I wouldn’t count on it. I have had solar for 11 years and 9-10 years ago, we had a BIG hailstorm. Bigger than baseball sized hail. Shattered two skylights, broke many concrete roof tiles, no problems with the solar panels.
Cool!
So they came out unscathed? that is great.
I just meant if they did get toasted, they are covered by the insurance
 

Dr. J

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#50
Here are some backup generators at Home Depot
So what for an electrician to install? 1000?
so 4-7k for a standby system.

View attachment 16560
Informative. I'm guessing they are louder than a battery. And do you know how they compare to the Powerwall in what appliances they're able to run? To me, running the fridge would be most important; A/C would be next, but I don't know if any of those are capable of running an A/C system.
 

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#51
Informative. I'm guessing they are louder than a battery. And do you know how they compare to the Powerwall in what appliances they're able to run? To me, running the fridge would be most important; A/C would be next, but I don't know if any of those are capable of running an A/C system.
I am not 100%, but reading the site for the $4500 one, typical install is $1500 and people say it runs the whole panel. So $6k for a standby Natural Gas unit with a 20 second response time[/QUOTE]
 
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LUXMAN

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#52
Interestingly, I found this on the CoServ Site.
Gets me thinking...….
This is being thought through as I go.....

Time-of-Use Rates

Determination of On-Peak/Off-Peak kWh: The On-Peak hours upon which the On-Peak Energy Charge is based shall be the hours from 3 p.m. through 8 p.m. for the months of May through October, and from 6 a.m. through 8 a.m. and from 3 p.m. through 8 p.m. for the months of November through April. All other hours shall be classified as Off-Peak hours.
Residential Time-of-Use:
Customer Charge $12.00 per meter
Energy Charge On-peak kWh $0.184089 MINUS the PCRF – $0.036 = $0.148089 per kWh
Off-peak kWh $0.090705 MINUS the PCRF – $0.036 = $0.054705 per kWh


I currently pay Base rate per kWh $0.129402 MINUS the PCRF – $0.036 = $0.093402 per kWh

So if I do 2 PW2 and am able to use them during those times (solar should cover most summer evening hours and all but 2 winter evening hours), any energy I use will be at the lower rate saving $0.03869/ kw.
But I am supposed to produce 19000 kw a year with system. But say I need 500 kw offset, that is $19.34 in savings a year. Holy Moly!!!! These powerwalls will pay for themselves in 656 years!!!!:confused: Ok so that did work out.

If I just had PWs and no solar and did the time of use charging dance, then I could save $735 a year and they would pay for them selves in 17.3 years. :(


Well I guess I cant use this as a cost justification for use with Solar..... hummmmmmm but since it could be a backup system, it could be justified as a stand alone set up figuring in the cost of a generator system. But of course it is a short term solution to a power outage without solar, unless you just sweat it out with ACs or Heat off
 

LUXMAN

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#53
Well the HOA denied it. Their Lawyer interprets the Texas code differently than TESLA. So I can go into it if someone wants but we have a new design

NEW final design.png

I steped down to their 305 watt panel (also black but with white grid lines), but the price difference allowed the addition of 3 more panels for less money. Adding one more panel would have increased my cost, I had to draw the line somewhere! :laughing:
This increased the total system power by 500watts to 14.945kw, but it us lower in overall efficiency and produces 96.56% of our target (instead of 99.89%) but that was a high target to begin with.
So I had to resubmit but they promised a quick turnaround. So hopefully all will be approved (HOA and permits) early next week and then we can schedule an install date!
 

Bigriver

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#54
[QUOTE="But we ended up sizing to 99.88% (cuz you cant go over 100%, they wont let you). [/QUOTE]

I've heard someone else say this, but it was not true for us. Went solar in Pennsylvania this year with Tesla, and we sized at 133% because we wanted to add capacity to charge the car.

Have found this an interesting thread, and a few other random thoughts from various posts:
  • I totally agree that the decision to go solar isn't all about a dollars and cents equation. It will probably eventually pay off, but with so many unknowns, it's impossible to be sure of that at this time. It's a diversification in our investments, basically. It's at least not lost value, like some other things at the moment!
  • We are waiting for powerwalls, and even more than the solar panels, I feel no need for a financial equation to justify them. They are simply a splurge that give us more independence and less likely to ever have a power outage.
  • Your net metering doesn't allow carryover to future months? That is concerning to me. It looks like your seasonal production vs consumption matches much better than ours, so should be ok for you. But we don't have the huge upswing in summer consumption (while we do have a huge upswing in summer production), so our net metering gives us massive credits in the summer which we whittle away through the winter.
  • I wish you well in a speedy installation, but have to caution that we found the process maddeningly slow. We signed in January, had our final design in February, and I thought possibly ready for install in March. But installation didn't happen until end of May, and we weren't allowed to activate until mid-July. I don't remember the blow by blow problems, but we were forever finding out that there was one more set of approvals and the number of re-submittals needed through the process was disturbing.
 

Dr. J

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#55
we do have a huge upswing in summer production), so our net metering gives us massive credits in the summer which we whittle away through the winter.
If you sized your system at 133% (which I take to mean 1/3 more than your historical/predicted consumption), what happens to the ultimate excess production over the year? Do they pay you for it, or do you give it to them for free? Also, are your sales to the grid at the retail price, the wholesale price, or some other price?

CoServ's approach here is really quite good (paying the retail price, if only on a monthly basis), compared to most of Texas (the deregulated market) and compared to say, Nevada, where Warren Buffet got regulators to reduce the price on sales to the grid. Since, typically in Texas, seasonality of electricity consumption more or less matches solar production, CoServ customers can at least can recover their investment in solar.
 

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#57
Is it: solar panels on the west side of the house instead of the south side? Trying to interpret the diagram.
Yeah. There are 8 on east and 41 on the west. Neighbor is gonna love that :tearsofjoy:
It’s the HOA thing. If I wanted to fight it I would prob need a lawyer and even then they could be right in their interpretation. So this gets me close on production. Plus we were higher this year than normal so we get close to 100% and 2 PW (splurge) will help.
 

LUXMAN

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#58
I've heard someone else say this, but it was not true for us. Went solar in Pennsylvania this year with Tesla, and we sized at 133% because we wanted to add capacity to charge the car.

Have found this an interesting thread, and a few other random thoughts from various posts:
  • I totally agree that the decision to go solar isn't all about a dollars and cents equation. It will probably eventually pay off, but with so many unknowns, it's impossible to be sure of that at this time. It's a diversification in our investments, basically. It's at least not lost value, like some other things at the moment!
  • We are waiting for powerwalls, and even more than the solar panels, I feel no need for a financial equation to justify them. They are simply a splurge that give us more independence and less likely to ever have a power outage.
  • Your net metering doesn't allow carryover to future months? That is concerning to me. It looks like your seasonal production vs consumption matches much better than ours, so should be ok for you. But we don't have the huge upswing in summer consumption (while we do have a huge upswing in summer production), so our net metering gives us massive credits in the summer which we whittle away through the winter.
  • I wish you well in a speedy installation, but have to caution that we found the process maddeningly slow. We signed in January, had our final design in February, and I thought possibly ready for install in March. But installation didn't happen until end of May, and we weren't allowed to activate until mid-July. I don't remember the blow by blow problems, but we were forever finding out that there was one more set of approvals and the number of re-submittals needed through the process was disturbing.
The 100% thing is something Tesla told me. I didn’t actually verify with CoServ but I wouldn’t doubt it. Now I am sure I coulda made the case that I have 2 electric cars and will need more but this is good as the price is already high.

Well I hope they are able to execute. The rebate for coserv requires I install this year. So no system if no rebate. I can’t do it otherwise. Payback would be even worse.

Now he said that PWs are in all the warehouses so if they are not spoken for maybe I can get em quicker. And the fact we are in TX may help.
That said, the Energy Adviser side we can get the solar up first and do PW later but they would rather not unless they had to.

So I am hoping this works out quickly and doesn’t drag on. I can be impatient:smirkcat:
 
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Bigriver

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#59
If you sized your system at 133% (which I take to mean 1/3 more than your historical/predicted consumption), what happens to the ultimate excess production over the year? Do they pay you for it, or do you give it to them for free? Also, are your sales to the grid at the retail price, the wholesale price, or some other price?

CoServ's approach here is really quite good (paying the retail price, if only on a monthly basis), compared to most of Texas (the deregulated market) and compared to say, Nevada, where Warren Buffet got regulators to reduce the price on sales to the grid. Since, typically in Texas, seasonality of electricity consumption more or less matches solar production, CoServ customers can at least can recover their investment in solar.
My net metering works on a tracking system of energy.... so far I have sent approximately 1000 kWh to the grid, so I can draw up to 1000 kWh from the grid at any time at no cost. If at any point that I use more than I have banked, I will start to pay normal rates like any customer. Once a year, in May, there is a reconciliation where they would pay me for any excess, and we start the net tracking with a fresh slate. They will pay me full retail rate, but only for the supplier portion, not for distribution. Although rates fluctuate, this is roughly that I will get paid 7 cents/ kWh for any excess, but if I’ve had to buy any during the winter, I will pay that rate plus also have a distribution rate of approximately 7 cents/kWh. So realistically I only get reimbursed for half the rate I have to buy it at. It is my goal to come out flush, with nothing to buy and nothing to sell.
 

Bigriver

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#60
Well I hope they are able to execute. The rebate for coserv requires I install this year. So no system if no rebate. I can’t do it otherwise. Payback would be even worse.

Now he said that PWs are in all the warehouses so if they are not spoken for maybe I can get em quicker.
I certainly hope they can do your installation to maximize your rebates. Wish you all the best on that.

On powerwalls, would love to understand their distribution and who actually gets them. As it had been in the news that there were PW shortages, I specifically enquired about their availability, and was told we have them locally. That was January 2018. But then they weren’t available and I agreed in May to separate the solar installation, and that PW’s could follow this Fall. After much silence and unanswered emails, I finally got a response that it will be 2019. I’m not holding my breath that even that will come to be. Luckily I am firmly rooted in understanding that PWs are a want not a need for my situation. Still wish Tesla could be more forthcoming. And will be very interested if you have the same (I hope not) or different experience on the PWs.