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Battery size / capacity?

Discussion in 'Tech Talk' started by RossE, Mar 11, 2016.

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  1. RossE

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    Have there been any hints on battery size and/or capacity? I've read some articles about battery packs for other Tesla cars, but haven't seen anything on the 3 yet.
     
  2. TrevP

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    Not yet but I'd expect 60Kwh at the minimum. Tesla has pushed Model S capacities from 60 and 85 to 70 and 90 and now leaked firmware information indicates a 100Kwh pack coming in the future. Ostensibly to offer visible spread once the car is announced.

    I'd suspect Model 3 will be 60 as the base and an optional battery pack of say around 80.

    As for range, Elon has said 200 miles (320Km) is the minimum passable range for an EV but most people are looking for about 20% more. I take that to mean around 240Miles (385kms) as a base with the optional battery possibly going as high as 270 miles (434Kms) or so.

    I'm expecting to order the biggest battery when the time comes but it all depends on the cost of the other options, the real range and what our dollar will be trading at in 2018. We're very lucky in Ontario be to able to qualify for the full $14,000 rebate for Model 3 as long as it has 5 seats, which I expect it to have.
     
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    • TrevP

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      One thing that I caught during the presentation was details on the battery makeup.

      When Elon was talking about safety the 3D CAD design projected behind him showed 8 battery modules arranged lengthwise in the pack. Model S has 14 modules arranged sideways. More importantly though is I saw that the cells are much larger than the 18650 format used in Model S.

      This has been mentioned before in financial calls by Elon and JB. So they're definitely going with bigger cells made in the Gigafactory for Model 3
       
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      • TrevP

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        There's enough information at the moment for me to start work on a video talking about some of the technical details about Model 3.

        I will attempt to explain to everyone what has been said about Model 3 in the past along with information gleaned from the test rides and the 3D CAD model shown during the reveal.

        Since the engineering prototypes are now real and being used as test vehicles along with possible acceleration of the project given the massive preorders, Tesla can't make massive changes between now and when production starts so it gives us a good starting points.

        Stay tuned!!
         
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        • teslaliving

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          The drag coefficient is supposed to be lower than the S. The S60 has 208 rated miles, the Model 3 is supposed to be 215. So with a lower drag coefficient i'd expect a 60kWh or smaller battery in the base version with room for more in the range/performance models.
           
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          • d0n13

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            How do you charge the M3 when at home, is that unit included in the price or is some extra piece of kit included? For the S, how long does it take to fully charge when using your home charger?
             
          • teslaliving

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            The Model S comes with a Universal Mobile Connector or UMC which lets you charge the car from main sources. Most owners opt to geta higher power outlet put in their garage, the most common one is a NEMA 14-50 outlet (240v 50a).

            This is from Tesla:
            Screen Shot 2016-04-03 at 5.31.47 PM.jpg

            With that standard outlet the Model S can add about 100 miles of range in about 3.5 hours.

            The charge times could be different with the Model 3.

            Generally you charge overnight and its well done before youre done sleeping.

            You can set the charge start time but not the charge end time.
             
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            • d0n13

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              Thanks teslaliving. So in the UK/Ireland I believe we can pull 60amps into a home. It's limited by a 60A fuse so say 50A. So in theory with the right cable we can charge the car in 6 hours approx?

              So a 60kw battery will pull 10kw/h for 6 hours, which is about 45amps. In Ireland it's about 16c per kw/h. So this would give you the capacity of the battery for approx €10

              That's pretty sweet.
               
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              • teslaliving

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                Its unlikely you'd need a full charge each day. I drive 100 miles a day (30,000 miles a year) and that means its only ~3 hours for charging. The UMC and power specs vary by country. I'd expect them to be identical on the 3 but the battery charge times may vary.
                 
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                • Van Shrider

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                  Wow. 6 hours vs 48 hours. I hope that my HOA will allow the NEMA 14-50 instillation in my garage.
                   
                • teslaliving

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                  If you can't get a 14-50 you can put in something lower power, it just adds to the charge time. You can also put in a HPWC which is 2x the speed of the 14-50...
                   
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                  • TrevP

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                    You'd need an 80amp circuit for the HPWC to charge at double the rate... The vast majority of Model S owners have 40amp circuits for charging and it's plenty adequate for overnight charging.
                     
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                    • TrevP

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                      Start asking now to be prepared for when the car arrives. I've already spoken to an electrician friend to run 40amps into my garage. We're in a freehold townhome so not a problem.
                       
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                      • teslaliving

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                        Some get the HPWC just as its a more permanent install. At the time the HWPC was more expensive than a second UMC so I opted to get a second UMC -- one for home charging and one to keep in the car for travel charging.
                         
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                        • jkchiang

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                          Anyone have any experiences with using the mobile connector primarily outdoors as your means of charging? I don't have a garage but do have an electrical outlet in the front of my home.
                           
                        • TrevP

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                          Both the UMC and the HPWC are water resistant so it shouldn't be an issue to use it outside. Keep in mind however the cable is rather heavy so some owners are using cradles etc... to help support the UMC and keep the cable from cracking prematurely.

                          I plan on ordering the HPWC and installing that on the side of my garage. I will use that to charge the car and keep the UMC in the car for travelling.

                          If you don't know what those are you can see them on Tesla's shopping page:
                          http://shop.teslamotors.com/collections/model-s-charging-adapters
                           
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                          • DaGlot

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                            I notice the range for the base Model S battery gets 10 miles more with AWD. Since I live 1200 ft up a little plateau with snowy winters I need AWD. A small increase, 215 up to 225 due to AWD would be helpful in the base Model 3 battery.
                             
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                            • TrevP

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                              More_zpsjtw5jqej.jpg
                               
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                              • Pinewold

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                                Hopefully buying 300k of these accessories will dramatically drop the prices. $650 for an extension cord with multiple heads costing $45 each is ok for someone who has $80k - $100k, but at $35k these prices are high and knock offs will come out.
                                 
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                                • Reggie

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                                  It's unlikely that you'll get knockoffs as the Tesla connectors are patent to Tesla. HOWEVER, every Tesla sold to date comes with a J1772 adapter. There are plenty of systems on the market that are much cheaper than the Tesla units and could be used to charge your Tesla at home. Now, here are a few things to note:

                                  Most J1772-based Level 2 chargers in the US run on 240V 30-32A (wired directly or using a NEMA 6-32) to be in compliance with Common Charging Standard (CCS). This would mean that your charge time for a 60KwH battery would increase to around 9 hours, 30 mins approximately from completely dead to full (as opposed to approximately 8). I have seen many of these units for as low as no cost to you (see note below) to around $500, which is cheaper than the Tesla unit.

                                  Note: Units that have no cost are not available everywhere. Usually, they are provided by a charging network or a retail energy provider (ex. in Texas, we have the NRG EVGO Home unit which is a lease. Reliant/NRG installs the unit in your home, you pay a rather low flat monthly fee to use it).
                                   
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