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Can current Teslas take advantage of 350kw+ charging?

Discussion in 'Charging and Infrastructure' started by Soto, Dec 28, 2016.

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  1. Soto

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    Excuse my newbieness. I'm not sure if this has been discussed.
    When Tesla does put Ultra-Superchargers capable of over 350kw charging, can the current Teslas take advantage? I think I've read they are limited to how fast they can charge currently (120kw or 130kw only??).
     
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    • Soto

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      Some more thoughts.
      1) Current owners are stuck at the old speeds BUT blessed by unlimited free charging at Superchargers.
      2) New future Teslas would be blessed with Ultra-high Speed Supercharging BUT limited to the new 1000mile free charging/credit system.
      3) If above two points are true, it would be sensible that they update new Teslas bought after Jan 1st 2017 so they have the faster charging ability. I'm betting/hoping they will announce this next week.

      People that are on the fence this week about buying before the Jan 1st deadline may have two things to consider: #1) Get free (slower) charging or #2) Get Ultra Super fast charging (at a limit).
      As a homeowner, I wouldn't be sad about losing the free supercharging if my goal is to put up one of those fantastic upcoming solar roofs with Powerwall2. Alternatively, some business owners may have free charging (kind of a business writeoff) at work. If not, take advantage of some of those incentives that help businesses put in EV charge ports.

      Sorry for the random thoughts, but I can't help myself.... I get too excited about all this lately, hehe.
       
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      • BigBri

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        145KW is currently the V2 of Supercharging. The current cars are pretty much at their limit of how much power they can draw. The Model3 may be the first car that can take advantage of it. I'm thinking the idea Electrek had that Tesla may push for the crazy charging in the Model3 so they can get more ZEV credits to offset the cost and production. Once the new cell trickles down to the S and X I'd suspect the improved charging.
         
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        • Soto

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          I'm still betting they will put faster charging ability in the new 2017 Model S & X. That will create more buzz plus Tesla doesn't have to worry about long lines as much at stations. And it won't be free charging which is another reason not to abuse the superchargers.
           
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          • Badback

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            Just to clarify a point. The free SC annual allotment is 400kWh, how many miles you get out of that depends on many other factors.
             
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            • MichelT3

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              #6 MichelT3, Dec 29, 2016
              Last edited: Dec 30, 2016
              If the 350 kW charging (or even 1 MW?) would be put in place, that would create a third technological shift after range and autonomous driving, of which we can't foresee all implications yet. Tesla (and EV's in general) would cause a transport revolution, if that's the case.
              I would LOVE that!
               
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              • cle

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                My thoughts about Supercharger V3:

                -the new 2170 cells can accept higher charging rates, and will be implemented in all 2017 teslas
                -auto docking (with autonomous driving, the car will have a connector at the back of the car, and car drives itself into a connector mounted on the Supercharger, eliminating the need of a complex snake connector that is very prone to defects and vandalism)
                -auto disconnect and parking after charging
                -it also has the conventional manual plug for current teslas
                -if 350kw is for child toys, it would be at least 600 kw, probably future proof and able to also charge higher voltage battery systems

                Just my two cents.
                 
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                • cle

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                  Just read on the Tesla website at the autopilot section:
                  For Superchargers that have automatic charge connection enabled, you will not even need to plug in your vehicle.
                  https://www.tesla.com/autopilot?redirect=no

                  I am very curious how the new Supercharger will look and how it connects!
                   
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                  • TrevP

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                    This is one of the possibilities for automated charging :
                     
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                    • MichelT3

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                      Wow! This is great news! And from the website, so planned to be realised.
                      I agree with you that the snake seems to sensitive and vandalism prone. We will have to wait. That Tesla already officially tells us that it will be possible is fantastic! Also all the other possibilities of AutoPilot and Full Self Driving Capability / Autonomous Driving (hadn't been at that part of the site for a while).

                      These capabilities are another HUGE reason why I love Tesla!
                       
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                      • cle

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                        #11 cle, Jan 1, 2017
                        Last edited: Jan 1, 2017
                        One other thing, the Supercharger V3 will most likely be a completely different setup. Now, every two stalls have one shared charger that takes it power directly from the grid.
                        You can't just draw 600kw from the grid without extremely high connection costs. So in the new setup, it is very likely that 4 or more (maybe 8) stalls will share one powerpack (currently holding 210kwh of storage) with build in DC to DC charger, so you can get a 5 minute 600kw boost (equals 50kwh in your battery pack, not counting losses), before you are set back to a much lower charging rate. I guess only one car can receive this current at a time, so the other cars at the same charging spot are charged at a much lower current until the first car receiving the boost charge is set to a lower charge.

                        Just my speculation.
                        Greetz Clemens
                         
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                        • Jaspal

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                          What's interesting is that there are electric buses in Geneva that use something called "Flash Charging." Apparently they can charge in just under 15 seconds. I'm curious to know if Tesla has considered it to use. There's an article that says that it blasts 600kw of energy and the buses run approximately 10 minutes. Do you guys see flash charging in the far future to be useful? I mean Elon did say that 350kw was a "mere child's toy" etc..

                          http://www.autoblog.com/2016/07/18/genevas-new-flash-charge-electric-buses-refuel-in-15-seconds/
                          [​IMG]
                           
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                          • Jaspal

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                            I'd assume that the snake charger will be protected at all times. One way they could combat that is by having like a metal sliding panel that opens down as the snake reaches out, automatically, into the charging port of the vehicle. As it's finished charging, it goes back into the compartment and the sliding panel closes.
                             
                          • Soto

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                            All this talk about the ultra fast 350kw charging or whatever they do won't really benefit us that are looking to put solar roof tiles and charge using the sun.The ultra fast charging is for people living at apartments and destination charging.
                            I guess we would still be charge limited by whatever our home pushes out, right?

                            BTW, I'm glad they pushed the free charging deadline to Jan 15th. More time for us to think about pulling the trigger on these
                             
                          • MelindaV

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                            Not apartments and destination chargers, but Superchargers where the onboard charger is bypassed
                             
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                            • cle

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                              I found an interesting article about fast charging here: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/ultra_fast_chargers

                              The cycle lifetime is reduced if you fastcharge. 2x the capacity (120kw with the 60kwh battery) could already give you noticeable degradation. Maybe that is the reason that tesla has the 75kwh battery that is software limited to 60kwh so that it can accept a higher charge current.
                              But it is possible to charge at 10x the capacity (so 1000kw is the absolute maximum if you have a 100kwh battery, but I think it is very unlikely tesla would like to kill there own batteries).
                              Also, I think that ultra fast charging is only possible with auto docking to the charger. Manual connecting the charger with massively heavy copper wires would not be a task for a high heel wearing women (no offense to the high heel women here!).

                              So if you would like to enjoy the car with a healthy battery for a long time, you should not order the ludicrous version (this extreme power drain is also bad for the battery if used to often), and mostly charge at home or at 1x the capacity of the battery. But who knows what they have build into the new 2170 cell.
                               
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                              • Soto

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                                I've always thought that the faster you charge something, the faster you degrade the battery. And that fast charge drains faster (unconfirmed). It's like my Samsung S6 for example. If I Fast Charge it, I notice the battery drains fast, but if I slow charge it, my battery lasts longer. Or maybe it's my imagination.
                                If the battery does degrade faster from the fast charging in a Tesla, then, yes, being charged from home would be better.
                                 
                              • Topher

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                                But what's in the battery isn't electricity, it is a configuration of chemicals. There are plenty of ways that different charging rates could result in different arrangements of those chemicals. The easiest to imagine would be crystal size, often doing things slowly results in better crystal structure. (I have NO idea whether Li-ion even have crystals, but they are what causes problems in Pb-acid batteries.)

                                I will wait for Tesla to make recommendations, or for empirical evidence to be gathered.

                                Thank you kindly.

                                p.s. depending on your needs there is, of course, higher quality electricity.
                                 
                              • Topher

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                                I would love to see data that supports that statement, but even your cite disagrees.

                                Thank you kindly,
                                 

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