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Canadian pricing

Discussion in 'Canada' started by tesla4therestofus, Apr 19, 2016.

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  1. tesla4therestofus

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    I was wondering what thoughts Canadian reservation holders have on possible Canadian pricing for the Model 3.

    Tesla has been very transparent in the past with Canadian pricing https://www.teslamotors.com/en_CA/blog/tesla-motors-announces-canadian-pricing-model-s and prices still appear in line with this strategy for Model S. The import duty of 6.1% mentioned in the post was due to the weight of the battery cells and disqualifying the car from NAFTA. With the gigafactory import duties will hopefully be gone.

    The exchange rate of 1.28 will hurt the affordability of this car for a lot of people right now. And the lack of federal incentives and provincial incentives limited to BC, ON, and Quebec doesn't help either.

    Hopefully the new liberal government in Canada will improve our dollar and recognize the value to a greener Canada of offering a federal EV tax credit. With a gorgeous Model 3 offering available I think a lot of Canadians outside of Ontario would join the Tesla movement.

    My guess for Canadian starting price based on current exchange rate:

    Base price 35,000 USD
    2% incremental cost 700 USD
    28% exchange rate 10,000
    Base Canadian price 45,700 CDN

    Maybe 46,000 CDN with subzero weather package included for winter.

    Thoughts?
     
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    • TrevP

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      Your base cost is about right on the money. I've been trying to get confirmation from Tesla about the 6.1% import duty being removed due to the batteries being made in the US but have yet to receive anything from them. I'll keep trying though.

      Another thought here is that being a mass-market car (relatively so compared to the Model S) that options pricing should be more affordable than what we're seeing on the Model S. Economies of scale come into play here. I think options pricing will be better but you can still expect them to be high given this is where manufacturers make their money. Cars in this range regularly see options take rate of upwards of $10K.

      I'm trying to be realistic about Model 3 costs and we're budgeting about $60K for it to be well-optioned. If it's lower then great but Ontario has really good rebates now and the 3 should easily qualify for the full $14K from the Gub'ment. However I think we can do better and we really should have something at the federal level for this. So many provinces are loosing out.
       
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      • tesla4therestofus

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        Thanks for the reply trevp. And thanks for doing this forum and your videos. This will help make the wait less painful!

        Here in Manitoba according to the supercharger map we should be getting a supercharger by model 3 launch. Hopefully that means we will also be getting a store/service centre. I heard Elon say once that they wouldn't deliver a vehicle to an area not serviced by a service centre so I'm hopeful this will happen sooner rather than later. I'd love to test drive the future at a store as well. If you are emailing Tesla in the future would you mind asking about servicing Winnipeg for model 3? You might be more likely to get a reply!

        Manitoba is a great province to encourage EVs as our electricity is 100% hydro electric. Hopefully there will be some rebates in place by 2018 to help pay for some options. Realistically my budget is closer to $50,000 but I'm hoping youre right about reduced options cost. Hoping to at least get supercharging and autopilot for that price.

        The future looks bright!
         
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        • JeffinAZ

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          Like your handle--reminds me of the Seinfeld show ("Festivus for the rest of us)!
           
        • tesla4therestofus

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          Haha. Glad you caught that. Now I just need a Tesla pole to celebrate! Oh second thought, maybe I'll just use my Model 3!
           
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          • Mirek

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            I'm hopping by the time M3 gets delivered our $s will be close to pair again, we are close to $0.80 now. I also want to thank TrevP for great videos which I find very interesting and educational. One think I'd like to know, if the incentives are taken off at time of purchase or we have to apply later on.
            Thanks
             
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            • minogully

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              We may not get a full 14K. The car certainly will initially qualify for the full amount, but there's a cap on the rebate at 30% of the MSRP of the vehicle. So, if the MSRP ends up being $46000 as originally posted, that would limit our rebate to $13800. Obviously still a good rebate, but with that 30% cap in play, we pay less in the end having an MSRP that is low enough that it limits the rebate to well below $14000.

              Citation for 30% cap:
              http://www.forms.ssb.gov.on.ca/mbs/...tFileAttach/023-2096E~3/$File/2096E_Guide.pdf
              (Look under the heading "What Incentives are Available for Electric Vehicles?")

              Jon
              (new member, first post)
               
            • TrevP

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              I'm aware of the cap but even if the Model 3 costs a bit more then $13,800 is only $200 shy of the full $14,000 so my thinking still stands. You'll save a lot more on gas than a measly $200 :)
               
            • Daliman

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              Thanks for this thread, I have been trying to estimate my cost and your estimate is in line with mine. Obviously a big factor will be the exchange rate at the time that you are offered delivery. I don't know how variable the price for a Model S has been over the last few years while the dollar has fluctuated. Does Tesla set the exchange rate on a regular basis for a period of time or for each car? I am hoping that the MSRP allows the full discount, that will certainly pay for the main options that I want, larger battery and autopilot. I am still torn about a dual motor. Thanks for the videos and for the intelligent conversation, it is helping to pass the time while i wait. Perhaps we can pull out the aluminum pole, air a few grievances about IC vehicles and gather for EV feats of strength. Cheers
               
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              • TrevP

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                Tesla has updated Canadian pricing no less than 4 times in the last year. The falling dollar has made Model S very expensive and yes they do adjust for the exchange rate.

                Take for example the very base Model S 70 which is $71,500 US. The Canadian price for the same car is $97,200.

                Using the current conversion rate of the Bank of Canada as of yesterday's close is 1.265. So $71,500 * 1.265 = 90,447.50. Then add the 6.1% NAFTA import duty on the converted rate (90,447.50 * 1.061 = $95,464.80) then add 2% for costs of business in Canada and you get $97,884.

                The 6.1% import duty we pay is because even though the car is made in the US, the sheer number of battery cells that are made in Japan tip the scales into the foreign car category.

                It's pretty close but you get the idea. Where do the import and costs of business numbers come from you ask?

                George Blankenship, Tesla's ex-VP of Business Development who retired in 2013.

                Here's the official Canadian Pricing press release from Tesla:
                https://www.teslamotors.com/fi_FI/blog/tesla-motors-announces-canadian-pricing-model-s

                When the Model S came to Canada the 60Kwh model had a base price of $75,200 CAD. That's a whopping $22,000 increase due to exchange rate and feature creep fluctuations.

                I'm not particularly happy that Tesla prices everything in USD and does straight exchange given my 2015 Lincoln is made in Kentucky and the price has not increased at all since last year but what can you do?

                At least with Model 3 I hope the pricing can be counted upon to be close to what exchange is at the current rate and not have the 6.1% import duty imposed due to the the battery cells being made in the US. But in any case, Model 3 is not going to be a "cheap car" up here but it's offset by the cost of fuel which is a lot more than in the US.

                People who are looking at this car are usually informed and are smart enough to calculate total cost of ownership including reduced maintenance and fuel costs. Something that is not usually calculated with ICE vehicles.
                 
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                • Daliman

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                  Thank you TrevP that was very helpful. Certainly not expecting this to be a small investment, the Ontario incentive will make it a mid priced vehicle. I expect the Model 3 will provide a much higher end set of features than anything else in the price range. I also understand that it will probably be about $2,000 less a year to run between the price of gas and maintenance. Also willing to use this chance to make a personal investment in moving away from the disaster that will occur if IC culture lasts another 50 yrs.
                   
                • Blackout

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                  Hello my fellow Canadians...

                  I'm assuming most if not all of you also reserved a model 3. I'm trying to gauge how many in Canada so far would be in the first 200k. I sign up on the first day just before he showed the far... As soon as Musk said 215 miles lol...

                  I also believe the initial base prise would be in the 45k and I think it's fair to estimate 13.8k (not to say 14k) also an overall 1k for a personal charging station level 2 (charger+installation 1k rebate in Ontario)
                  Buy let's be honest here most people will opt for autopilot and the mid range battery... I think the option might be 70 and 85kwh (it could be 90kwh). Since we are in Canada most people will go for the dual motor option... So even with the rebate we could be looking at a +55k CAD + taxes.

                  So far this is not a deal breaker for me, same thing goes with the interior and a disappointed front facia (was hoping to have a similar front than the model X and new S...)

                  I have a theory about the government incentives... I haven't seen it mention anywhere but I believe there must be a cap... For the US there is a cap after the first 200k cars and I believe that includes other Ev's PHevs like the volts...
                  So for Canada based on the amount and the population of Canada I think the cap would be around 20k. The first 20k might be eligible for the 14k rebate after they might significantly reduce it or simply cut it... (just do 50k*14k and see how much money that is... While 50k would be the first owners...)

                  So I'm really trying to be an earlier buyer to a model 3... And that's why I am curious to know about how many Canadian sign up in the first 3 days...
                   
                • minogully

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                  You might eventually be right about the cap on the number of people who can claim the rebate, but as it is currently written, there is no cap or end date to the incentive program. (see details about the incentive program here: http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/vehicles/electric/electric-vehicle-rebate.shtml)

                  But, from what I can tell, if it's going to end, it'll be likely be in 2021, which is the end year of the "5-year action plan" that the incentive program is part of. (see here for the action plan: https://www.ontario.ca/page/climate-change-strategy)

                  As for your comment about getting $1000 off the charging unit, it depends on the price of the unit and the costs of the labour. The incentive is for only 50% of the unit cost and the labour costs capped at $500 each. So, with the current price of the Tesla units, for example, if you purchase the $500 USD unit, with the current exchange rate and adding in the taxes, you'll be charged $722.84, which would qualify you for only $361.42 for your rebate on the unit. Basically, to get the whole $1000 off, you will end up spending at least $1000 after the rebate.
                   
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                  • Blackout

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                    Hey I didn't know about that thanks
                     
                  • TrevP

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                    I have a video thats going to go over the rebates for BC, Quebec and Ontario today. There is no caps on the number of cars, any caps are purely financial. BC added a $6.9 million to their fund up from last year. Quebec's current rebate was just updated and runs until December 31, 2020. Ontario's was just revamped in February, no caps that I can determine at this point.

                    It should be mentioned and kept in mind, that rebates are incentives to change bevahiour. To get people to buy EVs instead of gas cars. It's not there on a permanent basis to make them more affordable. Incentives go away eventually by either exhausting the funds allocated or the market takes on a life of it's own.
                     
                  • Blackout

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                    At least for BC you know the budget amount, and for Quebec you know the date it ends.. But for Ontario we are only left to assume as there is no date nor budget... Model S owners woke up one day just to find out the incentive was cut down... No warnings... And the February update happens also no warning... I'm just worry that one day we'll see an update out of nowhere saying they reduce the incentive as the did for the model S... (keep in mind in Canada there is more model S driving than any other Ev's or Volts...)
                    I'll wait for your video thanks for the notice
                     
                  • TrevP

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                    The video has been posted in the Media section in Trevor's video blog. If you subscribe to my Youtube channel you'll get notices when new videos are posted. I do 1-2 a week at the moment.
                     
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                    • minogully

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                      Hey Trevor,

                      Do you happen to know if we have to pay taxes on the part of the cost that's rebated? (For Ontario...)
                       
                    • TrevP

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                      Not sure what you mean @Jon Minogue but the rebate is a pure rebate, there's nothing to pay in taxes on that. It's "Free money" so to speak.

                      So if you buy a car you pay the car price + options + taxes. You fill in the paperwork and send in for the rebate. The rebate comes back to you in the form of a cheque. Do as you will with the money without any tax implications.

                      If you're thinking of using the rebate to reduce the amount financed or leased then you will have to pay for the equivalent out of pocket then reimburse yourself with the rebate cheque. Hope that helps.
                       
                    • Blackout

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                      Maybe he meant do you have to declare it as extra income for the year and then get taxe on it by the government...
                      That would such if you ask me lol but I wouldn't be surprised...
                       

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