Conversations with the uninitiated

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TrevP

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#1
Any stories you'd like to share with people you've had conversations with in regards to EVs?

I posted this April Fools joke to my Facebook account and my dad called me up today to talk about the car since he'd seen the reveal.

12938123_10153362978810653_4195283457241302053_n.jpg

As we were talking the inevitable conversation about changing came up and he said "where are you going to charge it?". I responded "at home" and he asked how long it would take to charge in the 110 socket. Ugh....

Anyhow, I tried to swallow my indignity but I explained to him, like I do to everyone else, that you plug it into a 220 volt outlet and the car charges overnight yada yada.

Interestingly enough though, he didn't ask about range so I guess the 346KM base range mentioned in the event satisfied him that it wasn't an issue.

My uncle on the other hand was way more in the dark. Keep in mind, my parents grew up in the 60s with MOPAR and the muscle car era so they only understand cars that run on dino squeezings. Last year while visiting family in Florida during the winter months he said "I'd never buy an electric car, they haven't perfected them yet". I asked what he meant by that and he said they were nothing but golf carts. Oy...
 
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#2
While waiting to register for the Model 3, I had lots of conversations with Model S owners filling up at the SuperChargers in front of the Showroom/Experience Centre.

The most interesting chat I had was with an elderly gentleman who had travelled around Australia in his Model S (fully optioned P85D with "Ludicrous" upgrade) quite a bit. He said he had a transformer/adapter kit that allowed him to plug into "anything". The most useful for long distance travellers is actually to connect into an industrial 3 phase power outlet. Charging is faster than with a home/destination charger and just a bit slower than with a supercharger. He said even the smallest country towns usually have one of these in some workshop somewhere, so the entire concern about "range limitation" is overdone.

The other thing that people probably still do not fully appreciate is that 95% of the time, they will not have to look for a recharge station, as you always recharge overnight at home (they might have heard it, but I believe this has not fully "sunk in") . How much time do people waste lining up at petrol stations, especially given Murphy's Law states that "You will always run out of petrol the instant when queues at the petrol station are the longest".
 

TrevP

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#3
The best part of the Teala ecosystem, other than the Superchargers, is the destination charging program. Any business owner who wishes to provide charging for Tesla customer can call headquarters and apply for the program. Tesla covers most if not all of the costs. They fully understand that they have to solve the whole widget in order to survive and that includes charging. Everyone else has the "someone else will do that" mentality.

There's a great story from a participant at Teslarati

http://www.teslarati.com/becoming-tesla-destination-charging-participant/
 

garsh

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#4
I asked what he meant by that and he said they were nothing but golf carts. Oy...
At least that perception will be easy to fix by giving him a ride in a Tesla. Preferably while winning a drag race against a Mopar Hellcat.
 

Chaits

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#7
Be sure to show him this video too:
Wow, the Model X leaves the Hellcat in dust! I am really excited for the Model 3, I can't wait to see what even the Base Model 3 can do (I haven't made up my mind on what version I will be getting, depends on the options price).
 

TrevP

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#10
Man, some of the comments I get on the YouTube videos are hilarious. Check out this gem from "Joe". I'm particularly proud of my response to this semi-troll ;)

image.png
 

Michael Russo

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#12
I (try to...) always check before creating a new thread so I think this link has its place here... most of you I trust may have heard of Jeremy Clarkson, the (in)famous ex-star of Top Gear, on the BBC, whom you would have thought knows a thing or two about cars, albeit with a (slight...:p) bias for the most exotic ones ...
Well, as this article will show, he may know stuff about fossils cars, but don't count on him for informed advice about EV!!! :) :)

http://jalopnik.com/jeremy-clarkson-has-no-clue-how-electric-cars-work-1789602771
 

Michael Russo

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#14
Those of us who have been following Tesla for many years already know that Jeremy Clarkson is nothing but an entertaining windbag who absolutely hates electric cars.
Top Gear controversies: Tesla Roadster review
Thanks, @garsh , though I used to watch Top Gear occasionally, I have not seen Clarkson in a while ... Obviously all caught up now and not likely to listen to him again! :)
 

Gary Moore

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#15
A significant thing about all points of view is that depending upon where you are on the landscape of knowledge, differing obstacles will block certain parts of what can be seen from there.

I had a college professor for metallurgy who hated aluminum (aka aluminium). He knew so very much about iron and carbon and friends, that he developed a severe contempt for anything beyond steel within the entire realm of material science.

This is much like the analyst who was recently mentioned in Fortune, that guy who proclaims that Elon has to double the price of the Model 3 or else go broke. That story of pricing models belies automotive history and the slogan, "Go big or go home." There are very large fixed costs in automotive manufacture, so it's a feast or famine proposition of business. (They are not selling those giant automotive manufacturing robots for a dime a dozen.) Yet, if you can sell enough cars to write off the fixed costs involved in vehicle production at a certain selling price, then the gravy train arrives, wherein most of the price per vehicle sold after that breaking point converts into huge profits. The wizards of pricing get paid for good reason. (Of course, if your main ambition in life is to short stocks, and you accordingly love to tell tall tales about your prey, you may tend not to inform the uninitiated regarding other details in the big picture.)

Remember, the expensive robots are durable assets that can be retrained to build other model cars as well.. The catch is, you need to sell enough cars to make money. If you only plan to sell 30,000 Chevy Bolts per year, you must price higher than the guy selling ten times that volume. It's how economics works.

If I buy a cookie cutter, rent an oven, and sell ten cookies, while the other guy, buying the same cookie cutter, renting the same type of oven at the same rate, and using the same recipe and ingredients, sells a thousand cookies, then my worthy opponent makes a whole lot more money than I do.

Blaming things on ignorance usually works too. Not knowing is frequently observed to be a major component of the human condition.
 
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Badback

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#16
A significant thing about all points of view is that depending upon where you are on the landscape of knowledge, differing obstacles will block certain parts of what can be seen from there.

I had a college professor for metallurgy who hated aluminum (aka aluminium). He knew so very much about iron and carbon and friends, that he developed a severe contempt for anything beyond steel within the entire realm of material science.

This is much like the analyst who was recently mentioned in Forbes, that guy who proclaims that Elon has to double the price of the Model 3 or else go broke. That story of pricing models belies automotive history and the slogan, "Go big or go home." There are very large fixed costs in automotive manufacture, so it's a feast or famine proposition of business. (They are not selling those giant automotive manufacturing robots for a dime a dozen.) Yet, if you can sell enough cars to write off the fixed costs involved in vehicle production at a certain selling price, then the gravy train arrives, wherein most of the price per vehicle sold after that breaking point converts into huge profits. The wizards of pricing get paid for good reason. (Of course, if your main ambition in life is to short stocks, and you accordingly love to tell tall tales about your prey, you may tend not to inform the uninitiated regarding other details in the big picture.)

Remember, the expensive robots are durable assets that can be retrained to build other model cars as well.. The catch is, you need to sell enough cars to make money. If you only plan to sell 30,000 Chevy Bolts per year, you must price higher than the guy selling ten times that volume. It's how economics works.

If I buy a cookie cutter, rent an oven, and sell ten cookies, while the other guy, buying the same cookie cutter, renting the same type of oven at the same rate, and using the same recipe and ingredients, sells a thousand cookies, then my worthy opponent makes a whole lot more money than I do.

Blaming things on ignorance usually works too. Not knowing is frequently observed to be a major component of the human condition.
Gary, what really gets me going is the blatant dishonesty of these folks and their unbridled greed.

One guy spends a fortune and devotes himself to making something good for all of us, and some slob comes along and writes some BS on the internet and expects to make more money than the other guy. He gets no respect from me.

About pricing, it must be consistent with the the market. The Chevy Bolt is a cheap econobox that just happens to have electric drive, the M≡ is an upscale sedan that is fundamentally a better car. The Bolt won't make it, IMNSHO, because it is overpriced, unlike the M≡.
 

BigBri

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#17
One thing that has surprised me with EVs is how most people are intrigued. I expected most of my family to be royally confused with electric cars and have no interest but it's really been the opposite. Everytime I'm over my 81yr old grandpa has a ton of questions about the car and wants to hear production updates etc. Hoping he's still around to go for a ride once its available. His health has never been great.
 

AEDennis

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#18
Gary, what really gets me going is the blatant dishonesty of these folks and their unbridled greed.

One guy spends a fortune and devotes himself to making something good for all of us, and some slob comes along and writes some BS on the internet and expects to make more money than the other guy. He gets no respect from me.

About pricing, it must be consistent with the the market. The Chevy Bolt is a cheap econobox that just happens to have electric drive, the M≡ is an upscale sedan that is fundamentally a better car. The Bolt won't make it, IMNSHO, because it is overpriced, unlike the M≡.
@Badback, I had higher hopes for the BoltEV until they ramped down their plans for distribution with the pending change in US Presidency. It's short-sighted as the rest of the world looks to leave US in the dust.

One thing that has surprised me with EVs is how most people are intrigued. I expected most of my family to be royally confused with electric cars and have no interest but it's really been the opposite. Everytime I'm over my 81yr old grandpa has a ton of questions about the car and wants to hear production updates etc. Hoping he's still around to go for a ride once its available. His health has never been great.
We have many senior citizens in the Tesla Owners Club of Orange County (California) that I help organize. Granted we also live in California, this may be an anomaly in OTHER parts of the country. A good number of our owners are onto their second if not third Tesla. My own mother is on her second EV and the Model 3 reservation she has is going to be her third EV (and (she's going to hate my mentioning this, but it's just between us ;)) she's not that much younger than your 81 year old grandfather.)
 

Gary Moore

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#19
Dishonesty and greed are both historical players in the auto industry and in other human endeavors. The horse traders, the "revered" experts in evaluating the worth of a horse, were folks intent upon keeping that card face down in order to make a killing with the next victim (also called the "customer," perhaps because the victim was customarily separated from his or her wallet, with the tricks like the "I'll have to go ask my manager" show).

But it's easy to miss the other side's point of view, the one you miss by not walking a mile in the other guy's shoes. He's got a different network of suppliers and allies, and a lot of them make products from petroleum components. "When your a Jet, you're a Jet all the way," aka "Birds of a feather flock together."

From my tree perch, the Bolt is a limited-production item, targeted for the knowledgeable nerds with small kids, who understand that global climate change is a complex but comprehensible science, while the Bolt also serves the dual purpose of being ugly enough that cool operators can laugh at the owners of them, thus keeping the demand down. When you can cover all of the bases, you're usually safe somewhere. The umpires can sort it out.

It's like when I was a video game author in the days of Atari. CBS Software bought the company to whom I was under contract, but they did not wish to publish the game in the on deck circle from me and my partner. Their apparent goals were to stop the flow of new distractions from the good old sales of vinyl in their record industry brand, through buying a player company in the new games market, and yet to hedge their bets, in this case, by covering the chance that the new-fangled gaming stuff was not just a passing fad, but the wave of the future. They'd both have a foot in the doorway for Plan B and stem the bleeding from Pong and Mario wounds to record sales.

Form follows function. Why keep the demand for Chevy Bolts down? Well, if you own fuel injection patents or stuff like that, building EV's is really not your cup of tea, is it?

The Bolt is overpriced, because they need the nerds to carry their own weight in the opening act while delivering their main show, ICE's are still the cat's pajamas! It's like Reality TV. It's not exactly realistic, but you need some colorful characters in the show to sell the commercials.

If a person is not wedded to the past, then the future is not going to be kept off stage for the sake of past relationship issues.

The saying, "Get a horse!" eventually becomes a peculiarly quaint taunt of a bygone era. Every paradigm shift has its day. Seeing is believing, but Ludicrous Mode actually nails you into your seat. The taste test reveals that many people would rather stand in front of a frunk than would choose to inhale the rear exhaust, ...as long as they can afford it.

"Time, time, time is on my side --- yes it is!" The price of Pokemon is going down.
 

Badback

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#20
A strange thing has happened to me since March 31st, I have completely lost all interest in any car except Tesla. And I am a long time car guy having dabbled in road racing back in the 60s and driven a number of performance cars since.