Drift Mode? Faster Than An M3?

MountainPass

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#1
Well we spent some time working on our stability / traction control defeat device and I guess you could say it's working! The car also did a 1:18.9 at TMP, which is comparable to some Porsches and even an Audi R8. The lap record for our class was set at a 1:20.4 with a BMW M3!

Enjoy. This car is ridiculously fun!!

 

JeffC

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#4
The car looks very controllable, linear and stable. Lots of grip, lots of suspension compliance, etc.

Sasha seems to have dialed out most of the understeer too. All very impressive!

Kudos to Sasha for the mods and to Tesla for a fantastic chassis.

Has kind of sold me on the RE-71R tires on racing wheels. RE-71R has a great reputation too. Here's the Tire Rack comparison review:

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=234

The Tire Rack reviewers called RE-71R "the current gold standard for the category".
 

MountainPass

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#5
@JeffC - Thanks! That means a lot. The RE71R is certainly a great tire, although it wears very quickly. It's also great for the Model 3 because it works well even when cold, not like the Trofeo R that needs a lot of heat to come in.

The car is very very fun and well balanced, there's no doubt about that!
 

Brokedoc

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#6
Did anyone else see that the speedo got up to 172mph on the straightaway?@?@!!!!!

Or was that in KPH? I can't tell...

There was some serious software tweaking going on for a single motor Model 3.
 

JeffC

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@JeffC - Thanks! That means a lot. The RE71R is certainly a great tire, although it wears very quickly. It's also great for the Model 3 because it works well even when cold, not like the Trofeo R that needs a lot of heat to come in.

The car is very very fun and well balanced, there's no doubt about that!
Thank you for the awesome and fun work! These are exactly the kinds of improvements I think so many people were hoping for with Model 3. It's wonderful to see more of its performance potential being reached! It may also force Tesla's hand in releasing Track Mode themselves.

The good balance shows up in how relatively effortlessly the car seems to drive at the limits. It's easy to find examples of cars driven on the track that require a lot more effort (for example larger, more frequent steering corrections) to go fast. Naturally it helps that you're an outstanding driver, but the point is to show the potential of the car better.

Can we assume you're in the "smooth is fast" school, because it certainly looks like you drive that way?

So much works to the advantage of an extremely well designed EV chassis: highly predictable and massive torque, low center of gravity, no gear shifts, instant throttle response, etc. I'm sure many people don't realize that all Teslas have a four link rear suspension design like modern Ferraris, and a front virtual steering axis suspension design like Audis. It's almost unfair how good Tesla mechanical, electrical and chemical design is. :)

In case anyone doesn't know, RE-71R is a 200 wear rating tire, which means it has a relatively soft, near racing compound. So yes, it will wear relatively quickly and arguably isn't appropriate for general street use. Michelin Pilot Sport 4S would probably be my current choice for performance street use. And an energy tire like the stock Aeros have would give the best efficiency for commuting, road trips, etc.

One reference: https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=48&

There are even softer, more racing biased tires. Do you think you could gain some even better lap times from those?
 
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MountainPass

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#14
Thank you for the awesome and fun work! These are exactly the kinds of improvements I think so many people were hoping for with Model 3. It's wonderful to see more of its performance potential being reached! It may also force Tesla's hand in releasing Track Mode themselves.

The good balance shows up in how relatively effortlessly the car seems to drive at the limits. It's easy to find examples of cars driven on the track that require a lot more effort (for example larger, more frequent steering corrections) to go fast. Naturally it helps that you're an outstanding driver, but the point is to show the potential of the car better.

Can we assume you're in the "smooth is fast" school, because it certainly looks like you drive that way?

So much works to the advantage of an extremely well designed EV chassis: highly predictable and massive torque, low center of gravity, no gear shifts, instant throttle response, etc. I'm sure many people don't realize that all Teslas have a four link rear suspension design like modern Ferraris, and a front virtual steering axis suspension design like Audis. It's almost unfair how good Tesla mechanical, electrical and chemical design is. :)

In case anyone doesn't know, RE-71R is a 200 wear rating tire, which means it has a relatively soft, near racing compound. So yes, it will wear relatively quickly and arguably isn't appropriate for general street use. Michelin Pilot Sport 4S would probably be my choice for performance street use. And an energy tire like the stock Aeros have would give the best efficiency for commuting, road trips, etc.

One reference: https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=48&

There are even softer, more racing biased tires. Do you think you could gain some even better lap times from those?

Hi , Jesse here (the MPP guy who isn't Sasha :p )

I drove the car in that configuration for the first time on the track on Monday. My track weapon for the past 10 years has been a 91 Toyota Mr2. As we all know, it is constantly trying to kill you. I will literally be soaked in sweat and exhausted after a track day. I was ready to dislike the Model 3, what with the lack of gear shifting and fun noises. Then I started throwing it into corners, just man handling the car, and it took it like a champ! I genuinely had a great time, the car just does what you want. Some of you may have noticed the understeer in the Speed Academy review. I can assure you that was driver related, the car will do whatever you tell it to, whether it be right or wrong. It has gobs of torque to pull out of corners and a perfectly smooth powerband, no VTEC or boost threshold to throw off the balance while cornering/accelerating. The icing on the cake for me was relaxing in the AC between sessions while we were plugged into the charging station. I know I may seem like someone who is biased, but I have been a firebreathing petrolhead my whole life and I am converted!!! I can't wait to get my own Model 3 in a few years and have to fight over the one charging station at the track with Sasha!
 

JeffC

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#15
Hi , Jesse here (the MPP guy who isn't Sasha :p )

I drove the car in that configuration for the first time on the track on Monday. My track weapon for the past 10 years has been a 91 Toyota Mr2. As we all know, it is constantly trying to kill you. I will literally be soaked in sweat and exhausted after a track day. I was ready to dislike the Model 3, what with the lack of gear shifting and fun noises. Then I started throwing it into corners, just man handling the car, and it took it like a champ! I genuinely had a great time, the car just does what you want. Some of you may have noticed the understeer in the Speed Academy review. I can assure you that was driver related, the car will do whatever you tell it to, whether it be right or wrong. It has gobs of torque to pull out of corners and a perfectly smooth powerband, no VTEC or boost threshold to throw off the balance while cornering/accelerating. The icing on the cake for me was relaxing in the AC between sessions while we were plugged into the charging station. I know I may seem like someone who is biased, but I have been a firebreathing petrolhead my whole life and I am converted!!! I can't wait to get my own Model 3 in a few years and have to fight over the one charging station at the track with Sasha!
Thanks Jesse,
I'm definitely a gearhead/petrolhead here too. I've autocrossed FWD VWs, and had a Mk 1 MR2, but did not race it. I like all good cars, but EVs are simply better cars. They drive better, are smoother, have far more predictable handling due to essentially a perfect motor (aside from torque decreasing at high RPMs), and are easier to drive. And that's without any regard to 4x better energy efficiency and vast mechanical simplification for EVs compared to combustion cars.

The Speed Academy driver looked like he was carrying too much speed into the turns and that was causing understeer. As Sasha hinted in that video, taking a late apex is the classic way to go fast: brake hard before a turn, optionally trail brake to start the back end rotating, aim for the exit point through the apex, then begin to roll on the power well before the apex. That's abbreviated as "slow in, fast out," meaning it's faster to go slow to reach the right line into the apex sooner, then hit the apex at near full power while gently unwinding the steering wheel into the next straight.

Pushing (understeering) a car to the apex due to being too fast in the early part of the turn will be slower overall since the front tires are overworked. It's asking the fronts to do too much work, and is unbalanced due to not dividing the work better between the front and back of the car and all of the tires. (AWD has an advantage there over 2WD in being able to put power more through more wheels, at the cost of some additional weight and complexity.)

Regarding charging, keep in mind the situation is dynamic, not static. As EVs proliferate by the millions due to their eventual lower purchase price, charging locations will also proliferate by the millions. Race tracks should get many more charging locations in coming years. Your work with Sasha may greatly help accelerate this by showing how dominant Model 3 could be and encouraging it's track use. So thanks for that too! :)
 
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tesla

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#16
Did anyone else see that the speedo got up to 172mph on the straightaway?@?@!!!!!

Or was that in KPH? I can't tell...

There was some serious software tweaking going on for a single motor Model 3.
MPP is in Canada. and it is KMPH.