1. Tesla Model 3 apparel now available!


    Dismiss Notice

EPA Certification Data

Discussion in 'Tech Talk' started by MelindaV, Aug 6, 2017.

Tags:
More threads by MelindaV
  1. MelindaV

    ☰ > 3
    Moderator
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2016
    Messages:
    2,469
    Likes Received:
    1,648
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    City & State/Province:
    Vancouver, WA
    Country:
    Country
    #1 MelindaV, Aug 6, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2017
    • Informative Informative x 9
    • Like Like x 4
    • Sandy

      Active Member
      Expand Collapse

      Joined:
      Jun 3, 2017
      Messages:
      70
      Likes Received:
      22
      Trophy Points:
      8
      Gender:
      Male
      City & State/Province:
      Cobourg, Ontario
      Country:
      Country
      #2 Sandy, Aug 6, 2017
      Last edited: Aug 6, 2017
      This is very interesting. The main thing I picked up here is that the MS and MX list an AC Induction motor and the M3 lists an AC 3 phase Permanent Magnet motor. I was under the impression that it was going to be an AC induction motor.
       
      • Agree Agree x 6
      • MelindaV

        ☰ > 3
        Moderator
        Expand Collapse

        Joined:
        Apr 2, 2016
        Messages:
        2,469
        Likes Received:
        1,648
        Trophy Points:
        113
        Gender:
        Female
        City & State/Province:
        Vancouver, WA
        Country:
        Country
        comparing to the Model S 75, the battery calculates down to a 70kWh.
        @Sandy - agree, thought induction was Tesla's 'thing' and would always go with that over the permanent magnet style.
         
        • Agree Agree x 2
        • Like Like x 1
        • victor

          Member
          Expand Collapse

          Joined:
          Jun 24, 2016
          Messages:
          23
          Likes Received:
          15
          Trophy Points:
          3
          Gender:
          Male
          City & State/Province:
          Blue Mountains, ON
          Country:
          Country
          Test Procedure
          81 - Charge Depleting UDDS

          PHEV/EV TEST INFO
          Recharge Event Voltage 208
          Recharge Event Energy (kiloWatt-hours) 89.404
          Charge Depleting Range (Calculated miles) 495.11
          Charge Depleting Range (Actual miles) 495.04
          Equivalent All Electric Range (miles) 495.11

          Holy batman! :eek:
           
          • Agree Agree x 1
          • Mike

            Well-Known Member
            Expand Collapse

            Joined:
            Apr 4, 2016
            Messages:
            300
            Likes Received:
            135
            Trophy Points:
            43
            Gender:
            Male
            City & State/Province:
            Batawa Ontario
            Country:
            Country
            Is there a subject matter expert out there that can provide some context for this raw data please?

            Thanks.
             
            • Like Like x 1
            • 3Victoria

              Active Member
              Expand Collapse

              Joined:
              Jul 17, 2016
              Messages:
              126
              Likes Received:
              75
              Trophy Points:
              28
              City & State/Province:
              Victoria
              Yes, this is a puzzle. I am hoping it is a hybrid, with smaller permanent magnets, so that they achieve good low speed efficiency and good high speed effeciency.
               
              • Like Like x 2
              • Sandy

                Active Member
                Expand Collapse

                Joined:
                Jun 3, 2017
                Messages:
                70
                Likes Received:
                22
                Trophy Points:
                8
                Gender:
                Male
                City & State/Province:
                Cobourg, Ontario
                Country:
                Country
                Hey Melinda. I agree but its right there in black and white. It's at the bottom of page 3 left side. It's a certification document and has to be accurate:

                S and X AC Induction
                Model 3 AC 3 Phase Permanent Magnet
                 
                • Agree Agree x 1
                • Roderick80

                  Member
                  Expand Collapse

                  Joined:
                  Jul 21, 2017
                  Messages:
                  11
                  Likes Received:
                  3
                  Trophy Points:
                  3
                  Gender:
                  Male
                  City & State/Province:
                  Riverview FL
                  Country:
                  Country
                  • Informative Informative x 1
                  • Kizzy

                    Well-Known Member
                    Expand Collapse

                    Joined:
                    Jul 25, 2016
                    Messages:
                    206
                    Likes Received:
                    64
                    Trophy Points:
                    28
                    City & State/Province:
                    California, USA
                    It reads to me that they did this range testing in a lab (4 wheel drive dynamometer). So if we lived in a vacuum, a 400+ mile range at freeway speed sounds doable. :)
                     
                    • Funny Funny x 3
                    • Love it! Love it! x 1
                    • Kizzy

                      Well-Known Member
                      Expand Collapse

                      Joined:
                      Jul 25, 2016
                      Messages:
                      206
                      Likes Received:
                      64
                      Trophy Points:
                      28
                      City & State/Province:
                      California, USA
                      • Like Like x 1
                      • Agree Agree x 1
                      • TrevP

                        M3OC Founder / Administrator
                        Staff Member Founder
                        Expand Collapse

                        Joined:
                        Mar 1, 2016
                        Messages:
                        3,016
                        Likes Received:
                        2,363
                        Trophy Points:
                        113
                        Gender:
                        Male
                        City & State/Province:
                        Aurora,Ontario
                        Country:
                        Country
                        I read the EPA docs. Model 3 is a monster of a car. 80kWh, 258HP on the rear motor, really efficient.

                        Nice!
                         
                        • Like Like x 3
                        • Agree Agree x 2
                        • Informative Informative x 1
                        • Sandy

                          Active Member
                          Expand Collapse

                          Joined:
                          Jun 3, 2017
                          Messages:
                          70
                          Likes Received:
                          22
                          Trophy Points:
                          8
                          Gender:
                          Male
                          City & State/Province:
                          Cobourg, Ontario
                          Country:
                          Country
                          Very cool! Rumored for a long time. And by cooI mean it. Motor runs cooler. Still 3 phase AC just using magnets instead of windings. Probably cheaper to produce as well.
                           
                        • Sandy

                          Active Member
                          Expand Collapse

                          Joined:
                          Jun 3, 2017
                          Messages:
                          70
                          Likes Received:
                          22
                          Trophy Points:
                          8
                          Gender:
                          Male
                          City & State/Province:
                          Cobourg, Ontario
                          Country:
                          Country
                          Model 3 Long Range window sticker says 126 MPGe.
                          Model S 75 RWD sticker for comparison is 98 MPGe.
                          Not due to weight and aero alone. More efficient motor.
                           
                          • Like Like x 2
                          • Agree Agree x 2
                          • Informative Informative x 2
                          • Mike

                            Well-Known Member
                            Expand Collapse

                            Joined:
                            Apr 4, 2016
                            Messages:
                            300
                            Likes Received:
                            135
                            Trophy Points:
                            43
                            Gender:
                            Male
                            City & State/Province:
                            Batawa Ontario
                            Country:
                            Country
                            Am I reading the raw data correctly, about 7 kW (10 hp) to propel the vehicle thru the test regimen?

                            I am not familiar with this raw data, hope a decode of all the data can be part of your next video.
                             
                          • garsh

                            Dis Member
                            Moderator
                            Expand Collapse

                            Joined:
                            Apr 4, 2016
                            Messages:
                            2,162
                            Likes Received:
                            1,196
                            Trophy Points:
                            113
                            Gender:
                            Male
                            City & State/Province:
                            Pittsburgh PA
                            Country:
                            Country
                            Wait a minute.... was I correct???
                             
                          • MelindaV

                            ☰ > 3
                            Moderator
                            Expand Collapse

                            Joined:
                            Apr 2, 2016
                            Messages:
                            2,469
                            Likes Received:
                            1,648
                            Trophy Points:
                            113
                            Gender:
                            Female
                            City & State/Province:
                            Vancouver, WA
                            Country:
                            Country
                            sorry @garsh - I don't think those numbers line up with the actual battery size
                             
                            • Agree Agree x 1
                            • Informative Informative x 1
                            • Kbm3

                              Active Member
                              Expand Collapse

                              Joined:
                              May 24, 2017
                              Messages:
                              52
                              Likes Received:
                              20
                              Trophy Points:
                              8
                              City & State/Province:
                              Baton Rouge, La.
                              Country:
                              Country
                              That is coming from the wall.
                               
                              • Agree Agree x 2
                              • Jethrometro

                                Member
                                Expand Collapse

                                Joined:
                                Aug 2, 2017
                                Messages:
                                7
                                Likes Received:
                                10
                                Trophy Points:
                                3
                                City & State/Province:
                                Beverly hills ca
                                Country:
                                Country
                                Here's the Bolt's CSI for comparison.
                                 

                                Attached Files:

                                • Like Like x 1
                                • Informative Informative x 1
                                • Gary Moore

                                  Well-Known Member
                                  Expand Collapse

                                  Joined:
                                  Apr 10, 2016
                                  Messages:
                                  225
                                  Likes Received:
                                  128
                                  Trophy Points:
                                  43
                                  Gender:
                                  Male
                                  City & State/Province:
                                  Mountain House, CA
                                  Country:
                                  Country
                                  Holy L13, I'm hallucinating they're naming shocking engines after me!
                                   
                                  • Funny Funny x 2
                                  • EValuatED

                                    Active Member
                                    Expand Collapse

                                    Joined:
                                    Apr 29, 2017
                                    Messages:
                                    170
                                    Likes Received:
                                    65
                                    Trophy Points:
                                    28
                                    Gender:
                                    Male
                                    City & State/Province:
                                    Herndon, VA
                                    Country:
                                    Country
                                    #20 EValuatED, Aug 6, 2017
                                    Last edited: Aug 6, 2017
                                    The ever analytical Troy has posted a summation here on TMC. Seems the usable battery is around 78.3 kWh and the pack is a few kWh larger at 80.5 kWh... and larger than the S75*!

                                    "1. The Model 3 large battery is 80 kWh. To be precise, the actual capacity is 80.5 kWh based on this calculation:

                                    Total pack capacity = 350 V * 230 Ah= 80,500 Wh = 80.5 kWh

                                    Total Voltage of Battery Packs: 350 Volt (source is page 3 here)

                                    Battery Energy Capacity: 230 Ah (source is page 3 here)

                                    The document doesn't say that 230 is 230 Ah, however, I found another example here from another car that shows the unit for "Battery Energy Capacity" is Ah.

                                    2. Model 3 LR usable capacity is more than Model S 85/85D/P85D.

                                    Usable capacity is 78.3 kWh (source: page 6 footer). This is more than the usable capacity of the Model S 85, 85D, P85D. Those have 77.5 kWh usable capacity (source). At that time Tesla was over advertising battery pack sizes. This problem only affected the 85 and 90 kWh packs. Both of these packs have less than advertised capacity. Tesla later corrected this problem with the 75 and 100 kWh packs.

                                    Tesla doesn't want to remind people that the Model 3 LR has more battery capacity than the 75 and 85 kWh Model S versions. That seems to be the reason why they are not using the Model 3 80/80D/P80D name scheme anymore. However, I don't know how this will work because Model 3 LR or Model 3 Standard will be very confusing when they upgrade the battery sizes."

                                    * Recent interweb posting included a picture of a new S75 car with a battery label indicating an 85kWh pack.
                                     
                                    • Informative Informative x 5
                                    • Like Like x 4

                                    Share This Page

                                    Model 3 Owners Club © 2017. All rights reserved.
                                    Model 3 Owners Club (M3OC) is an enthusiast club and is not affiliated with Tesla Motors or the Tesla Motors Club Forum (TMC).
                                    All Tesla logos are trademarks or registered trademarks of Tesla Motors.