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European price estimating

Discussion in 'Europe' started by MichelT3, Sep 24, 2017.

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  1. MichelT3

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    For a based guesstimate of the prices in your country, do what @TrevP did (and I copied for The Netherlands).
    Take the $ and € prices of Model S 75 and S 100D in the US and Germany. Apply those factors to the Model 3 55-SB and 80-LRB. For the German € prices for options, do the same for comparable US options.
    Of course that is no certainty, but the best guess possible at the moment.
    For us in The Netherlands it's 40 % more for the car and 6 % more for the options, due to transport costs, import duties and VAT. All factors which Tesla has hardly any grip on. They can only decide that prices are unreasonably high (or low) and will do with less (or more) profit in specific countries, for 3 compared to S, due to marketing reasons.
     
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    • MichelT3

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      I would love it if we could convert prices in US $ to € solely on the currency index. Then for us the price would be really nice. But I fear that will not be the case, at all! Far from it.
       
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      • Juergen

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        Thanks! I did the same in my own calc sheet. The US price for S 75 in $US is nearly the same as in € including the German VAT. So I can estimate the price of my dream car.
         
      • MichelT3

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        Is it? On how many € do you come for Germany?
         
      • Juergen

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        For the first production car in black with LR batterie, premium paket, aero wheels I have 49.000€ on my sheet.
         
      • Michael Russo

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        That would be fan.tas.tic as it would put Midnight S≡R≡NITY around €53-54k with 19’’ wheels... :cool:

        I am afraid to believe it, or, better said, to count on it... :oops:
         
      • MichelT3

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        #7 MichelT3, Sep 25, 2017
        Last edited: Sep 28, 2017
        I seriously doubt that will be enough.
        If I do the calculation for German prices for Model S (slightly lower than NL; why is that?), I get to € 59.000 including MWS for your configuration. Not to disillusion you, just to be realistic.

        EDIT 28 Sept.: After recalculation because of lowered prices this probably will be in the order of € 55,300
         
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        • Juergen

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          For my calculation I use Tesla Model S 75D with 73.170€ inkl. VAT and $74500 excl. VAT.
          Then I say they are nearly the same.
          Base price $35,000 LR $9,000 Premium $5,000 together $49,000
          One to one in Euro is 49,000€

          That's my calculation!
           
        • Akilae

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          The problem with your calculation is that Tesla uses a special option for the german market only to be eligeable for the "Umweltbonus". The base price of the car you are comparing it with (The U.S. model) is a Tesla Model S with the so called "Komfort Paket" included because that option does not exist anywhere else in the world. This boosts your base price by 8900€ up to 82.070€. Like it or not but your calculation is unluckily not realistic :(.
           
        • MichelT3

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          You are right @Juergen, I should have looked better!
          Price differences have dropped al lot since the past months!
          From 32 % down to 16 % more (including VAT) in The Netherlands.
          If I put that into account, my Model 3 would go down to € 63.000.

          Thanks @Akilae, for explaining the inexplicable difference for Germany.
          Juergen's Model 3 configuration would be around € 56.600 in The Netherlands

          Price in The Netherlands for Model S 75D today is € 86.585
          In France € 79.200
          In Spain € 86.000
          In Belgium € 86.100
          In Italy € 86.700
          All part of the Euro zone. Small differences around 86K will be due to different % of VAT/MWS/BTW/...
          Has France also a specially equipped Model S 75D?
           
        • Juergen

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          You are right! I miss the German “ Komfort Paket”. In the worst case, you don’t get the 2000€ “Umweltprämie”, the car will now cost around 55,300€. But this are only estimations. In a year or more we know it
           
        • Akilae

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          I have heard of Model S beeing less expensive in france but do not know the reason for it.
           
        • Juergen

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          The french Model S is only 300€ cheaper than the german one. The premium package isn’t splitt in France.
          For Germany they made this to hold the price for the base model (MS60) under 60,000€ to get the rebate.
           
        • MichelT3

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          @Juergen, what is the MWS in Germany on cars? In NL it's 21 %.
           
        • Juergen

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          Today 19% , but I don’t know what the next weeks bring to us:cry:
           
        • Konstantinos Kostis

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          I don't see any political party potentially part of our next government raise VAT.
          If "Die Grünen" become part of it, which is rather likely, we might even see €6000 "Umweltbonus" instead of just €4000 today since that is what they campaigned for. However, any kind of coalition will be some sort of compromise.
           
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          • Juergen

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            I'd also take the 6000€.;)
             
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            • MichelT3

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              Any subsidy has to be paid for in some way. Higher VAT? :p:D:cool:
               
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              • Konstantinos Kostis

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                Yeah, even the €4000 are only paid half by the German government, so €2000. The rest is forced on the manufacturers. Guess how they do that. It won't make a noticable difference for the German fiscal year and looking at the extra money coming in through taxes the past three years taxes may even be reduced not raised here
                 
              • avoigt

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                If we look at the history of shifting prices of S and X in the last quarters including some elimination of batterie packs I won't be astonished if we experience a similar situation next year with the M3.

                Lets assume in 2018 we get more details about MY and a release date - as a result they may change and adjust pricing for M3 so that price differentiation leads to optimal total volume and revenue creation based on price elasticity.

                Also once the AWD is out next year that will be on top, the same applies for car suspension, Performance Mode and some other additional features that they will include over time. All of these may bring a fully equipped M3 too close to the S price finally therefore they are forced adjust.

                Assuming batterie costs are going further down which is pretty clear it will happen, margin will increase and they may be tempted to reduce the price to drive even more demand. But that makes only sense in a situation where production capacity has been increased and they are able to deliver within 2-3 months after ordering.

                Over the next 2-3 years I expect Tesla therefore to push the M3 demand over a runnrate of 1 M cars p.a.
                 

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