EV Fees to Offset Lost Gas Tax Revenue

[slicknick13]

Although pricey compared to the gas tax, these heavy EV's need to pay for road wear somehow. So, it's not exactly unfair. Just level. Mileage based taxes are the most fair, but nobody wants that.

Gotta feel for Michigan though, I know a couple of engineers up there and they really do struggle with getting the right materials together to keep their roads in good shape. Brutal conditions for road construction.

 

[garsh]

Although pricey compared to the gas tax, these heavy EV's need to pay for road wear somehow.

Large trucks cause a much larger proportion of road wear.

A Model 3 weighs 3,838 to 4,072 lbs, depending on version. That's right at the "average car" weight in this table.

 

[Ericb]

Model 3 weighs about 500lbs more than a honda accord. That's not a huge difference, that's 2 large people.

 

[slicknick13]

I appreciate the comparisons, but at the end of the day, most EV's don't pay a road tax while contributing to wear. As more EV's are adopted, or even as ICE vehicles get more efficient, gas tax and infrastructure revenue decreases. That accord that's within 500lbs is paying 100 bucks a year on average. The hummer about 300.

There's not even a good, fair solution to the problem. It'd have to some weight based federal tax tied to registration and mileage to avoid tax havens. Tesla semi could, in theory, not pay a dime in road tax.

 

[Ericb]

Obviously EVs need a road tax, or dedicate states taxes to roads and remove the road tax from fossil fuels. But weight is a silly argument. Would you tax an ICE car that is riding with 4 adults more than you would a single person in an electric car?

 

[slicknick13]

Obviously EVs need a road tax, or dedicate states taxes to roads and remove the road tax from fossil fuels. But weight is a silly argument. Would you tax an ICE car that is riding with 4 adults more than you would a single person in an electric car?

No, picking nits is silly. But if road wear is exponential based on weight, and GVWR is a hard fact, it seems silly not to consider it.

 

[Lovesword]

Large trucks cause a much larger proportion of road wear.

A Model 3 weighs 3,838 to 4,072 lbs, depending on version. That's right at the "average car" weight in this table.

How much does the "fat man on a freakishly heavy bicycle" have to pay?

I'm already reserved to the point that as EVs become more adopted and wide spread, more and more states will add a fee of some kind like Michigan. No matter what we do in life, there's always going to be someone somewhere with their hand out.

I'll add that I'll gladly pay a "you used the road, you should help pay for it" tax as soon as all ICE drivers pay a "you are taking years off my life and killing people" tax.

 

[slicknick13]

I'll add that I'll gladly pay a "you used the road, you should help pay for it" tax as soon as all ICE drivers pay a "you are taking years off my life and killing people" tax.

I would gladly pay that to keep enthusiast cars on the road.

Lets be honest though, just because we bought an EV in the past couple of years doesn't make us any better than someone that drives an ICE vehicle. Not everyone has the cash, and I doubt that more than a handful of us went from nothing to electric. Definitely one of those check your privilege moments.

 

[garsh]

I appreciate the comparisons, but at the end of the day, most EV's don't pay a road tax while contributing to wear.

The reason why I posted that chart was to show you that the "wear" argument is incorrect. A garbage truck driving down your street once puts just as much wear on your street as your Model 3 driving on it every single day for two years.

If you want a more generic argument that every car owner needs to pitch in to maintain the streets, that's fine, but trying to couch it in terms of the amount of wear put on the road due to a heavy EV is a flawed argument.

 

[Lovesword]

I would gladly pay that to keep enthusiast cars on the road.

Lets be honest though, just because we bought an EV in the past couple of years doesn't make us any better than someone that drives an ICE vehicle. Not everyone has the cash, and I doubt that more than a handful of us went from nothing to electric. Definitely one of those check your privilege moments.

On the contrary, I'd say it does make me better. I'm a small man and it's all about the status symbol of owning a Tesla. I look down on everyone now.

Also, how should I check my privilege for you? Do I owe you something?

 

[slicknick13]

If you want a more generic argument that every car owner needs to pitch in to maintain the streets, that's fine, but trying to couch it in terms of the amount of wear put on the road due to a heavy EV is a flawed argument.

Hanging onto the heavy word was really not what I was getting at, but the cars are heavy for their size. Still not paying their share in most locations, regardless of the amount of garbage trucks rolling.

Also, how should I check my privilege for you? Do I owe you something?

Don't owe me a thing. After all, at this point in mainstream EV ownership, you're not any more special that the lady driving the clapped out '82 cutlass down the road.

 

[Feathermerchant]

I think annual mileage and vehicle weight would be the fairest. The stats could be gathered at each state inspection then used to come up with a fair tax rate.
The gasoline tax would then be eliminated.

 

[slicknick13]

I think annual mileage and vehicle weight would be the fairest. The stats could be gathered at each state inspection then used to come up with a fair tax rate.
The gasoline tax would then be eliminated.

The big argument against this is that the state can't prove the mileage driven was within their borders, cheating out other states. I would think it would average out or be a non-issue.

Other problem with this is there would be some state out there with lax requirements or some loophole that the biggest offenders can register their vehicles in.

 

[Ericb]

The big argument against this is that the state can't prove the mileage driven was within their borders, cheating out other states.

How would that be any different from the Registration tax based on vehicle weight?

 

[SR22pilot]

The big argument against this is that the state can't prove the mileage driven was within their borders, cheating out other states. I would think it would average out or be a non-issue.

Other problem with this is there would be some state out there with lax requirements or some loophole that the biggest offenders can register their vehicles in.

Yeah and someone buys a tank of gas just before crossing into another state. The present system misses that. In Georgia they charge me the same whether I drive 1 mile a year of 100,000. What if I lived in Georgia near the state line and worked in South Carolina? There is no perfect system. Mileage and weight is as close as we can come without resorting to GPS tracing our every move. That was proposed once. Fortunately the proposal was killed. I don't want the government tracking everywhere I go. Mileage and weight would be a lot closer to fair than what Georgia has now.

 

[slicknick13]

How would that be any different from the Registration tax based on vehicle weight?

It's not. But that's what the fight is going to be/already is. Perfect solution is to toll every road.

Burning fuel in proximity to the station where it was purchased and making that tax money based on the fuel mileage of the vehicle it goes into works for the most part.

And states with higher road maintenance costs are going to take a bath on something that's consistent across the states.

 

[msjulie]

At some point, road use fees seem reasonable but with American tastes leaning so strongly towards ever-larger gas powered vehicles which advertise their 'fantastic' MPG which is only in the teens or low 20s (Ram, Ford F150 and related SUVs to just name a couple) and then add the huge incentives given directly to fossil fuel companies, road use tax for EVs seems a really bad idea at this point.

I know some folks that seem to be aware of what's going on in the world, seem intelligent, have (or will soon) small children and the only thing even making them think of an EV is the car pool lane sticker... add another 'tax' to it and it will discourage too many I think..

 

[PNWmisty]

I think annual mileage and vehicle weight would be the fairest. The stats could be gathered at each state inspection then used to come up with a fair tax rate.
The gasoline tax would then be eliminated.

If anything, gas should be taxed more to pay for the cost to society of extracting/burning it. Excise taxes should not only be used to cover road damage. We have an alcohol tax to cover (part) of the cost of abuse. We have tobacco tax to cover health costs. Roads are public infrastructure and will be funded through various means. The gas tax should increase to encourage less costly/harmful solutions.

Global warming is taking its toll on roads all over with more excessively hot days, more extreme weather, rising sea levels in coastal areas, more powerful storms, etc. The tanker trucks that bring the gas to the pumps take an extraordinary toll on the roads but are not taxed in proportion to the damage they cause. Same with the fracking rigs hauled from field to field and all the water trucks used to frack. The toll is enormous but they are not paying their share. By taxing gas at a higher rate and diverting some of the revenue collected to reduce the tax burden on payers of property tax and income tax, incentivizes behavior that makes us stronger and healthier as a society and decreases the burdens on our children and grandchildren. I was taught to take care of myself and not to leave a mess for others to clean up.

Reducing the gas tax doesn't achieve our common goals. Well, common goals if you don't make your living by collecting oil mineral rights royalties.

 

[JWardell]

Our country is already funding our roads notoriously wrong. Our roads and bridges are crumbling and are a joke compared to most other developed countries. The gas tax already was not getting things done. State governments need to take a serious look at funding our infrastructure properly. I won't even get started on the state of our train and public transportation systems.

 

[slicknick13]

Take a look at a state like Florida, which is half Canadian this time of year. They would be devistated by any tax that isn’t point of use.