From Electrek: Elon Musk defends level 3 autonomy against Google & Volvo, says ‘morally...

Discussion in 'News from Electrek.co' started by RSSFeed, Sep 13, 2016.

  1. RSSFeed

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    While I was completing a transcript of the conference call with Elon Musk on Tesla Autopilot under v8.0 of the automaker’s operating system, I realized that a very interesting quote by Musk went mostly unnoticed. Tesla’s CEO defended the company’s decision to push level 3 semi-autonomous system, a system under which the driver basically acts as the backup to the autonomous technology.

    Several companies developing self-driving technology, like Google, Ford and Volvo, came out publicly against such a system citing safety concerns with the transfers of controls between the human drivers and the “robot driver”. Instead, they are advocating for a jump directly to level 4 full autonomy. more…

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  2. BigBri

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    Agree with Elon here. Holding tech back until it's fully autonomous seems silly. What they're saying is just an education issue. You need to teach the driver how to work with the autopilot system (or any assisted system the other manufactures have).
     
  3. Topher

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    Or perhaps a game design problem. If the job of a driver is to identify potential issues, identify false positives for radar hits, etc. then they will be engaged, increasing safety, and training the fleet learning all simultaneously.

    Thank you kindly.
     
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  4. garsh

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    I'm not a fan of either side making statements that the other one is wrong.

    Both approaches are acceptable. Both approaches come with risk.
    I'll be supporting Tesla's approach though. I want me some autopilot.
     
  5. chopr147

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    I LOVE AP! But in this litigious society Tesla is taking a risk. Even with the warning when AP is turned on and the constant reminders from Tesla that AP is an assist feature . Some people have blamed AP in accidents anyway. The only way autonomy gets here in the next 10 years is with real world experiments. Tesla is the only company with the cajones to do this.
     
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  6. TrevP

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    The biggest issue here is customer education. There are many out there who are using AP incorrectly and taking huge risks by not using it properly and trying to test it's limits. Some are even recklessly displaying their stunts on YouTube.

    This guy for example is just begging for a Darwin award:

     
  7. KirbyTurbo

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    Bad part about this is if he gets into an accident the media will say that it's Tesla's fault for him circumventing the system.
     
  8. Rick59

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  9. Paul Spiers

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    And we wonder why warning labels on cleaners say "Do not ingest" or my favourite, do not immerse your radio in a tub of water while bathing. In some cases people really do need to be protected from themselves in other cases its just opportunists that are out to make a buck.
     
  10. Paul Spiers

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    I think there is an argument for better driver education in the future for new drivers on how to drive autonomous and semi autonomous cars.
    Trying to educate drivers that already do crazy things with their cars is a bit late, the genie is out of the bottle on that front. The only thing to do with current owners that try to defeat the so called "nanny" systems built in to AP program is by law enforcement. No need to pass new laws, the existing laws are already in place for reckless endangerment or stunting. These drivers just need to be fined for their careless and irresponsible use and misuse of the AP.
     
  11. Topher

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    There is nothing you can do with AP which isn't more dangerous (or illegal) without it.

    Thank you kindly.
     
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  12. Paul Spiers

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    So you support people finding ways to circumvent the safety features of the AP?
     
  13. Topher

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    Not sure how you got there from what I said.

    Thank you kindly.
     
  14. chopr147

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    Really!? Is it that important to defeat the AP safety feature? Plain dumb and he will cause an accident and blame Tesla. AP sometimes gives that warning because it gets confused and needs driver assistance. This dope will be playing with his rubberbands and drive right off the ramp into the water barrels. o_O
     
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  15. Paul Spiers

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    Maybe I misunderstood what you said:

    Could you clarify what you meant? I thought that you were saying that people are not doing anything in their Teslas that other people are doing in a regular vehicle. To summmarize, It sounded like you were implying that what these people are doing to circumvent the AP safety features is no worse and therefore there is no reason to hold them accountable for their actions.

    Regards
     
  16. Topher

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    One person fell asleep in their car while driving.
    Another was inattentive to a truck crossing in front of them.
    A third tied a rope to their steering wheel.
    Some drive for miles with their hands off the wheel.

    All of these actions would have had a worse* result if the car did not have auto-pilot than if it did.

    * - or equally fatal.

    Thank you kindly.
     
  17. Paul Spiers

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    Topher, I am not arguing against the use of auto pilot, I am all for it and hope to see it developed to the point where people can drive hands free or take a nap. However, during the development stage, people need to be vigilant and be ready to take over in a moments notice. They need to realise that the AP has limitations right now and we all acknowledge that, I think. But some people are misusing the technology and doing things that put their life and the lives of those on the road at risk.

    The individuals that are misusing or purposely circumventing the systems safety features are not helping. They will further damage the already poor image that the media portrays of autopilot. It also gives short sellers of Tesla stock the ammo they want, to drive the share price down.

    Cheers
     
  18. Gary Moore

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    In ancient times at work, the word heard within General Motors was that the most dangerous component of any vehicle was the nut loose behind the wheel.

    I am appalled to this day that Cadillac, Mercedes, and BMW drivers are both somehow disabled and cannot afford the appropriate (and available) alterations or they cannot even afford the energy and skills training which are required to successfully operate automotive turn signals.

    Perhaps those cheap cars that they drive don't come with them, or they personally are also equally as surprised as I am whenever they cut me off, or leave me waiting at an intersection through which they were never about to transverse.

    (A cabbie in Boston once told me if chauffeurs drove like that, they'd be canned.)

    The major factor in not having self-driving vehicles as yet? Lawyers. When you are a large corporation, there is a large bull's eye upon your back with the lettering "Please target your lawsuit here - big prizes available!"

    To get Tesla's AP to ramp up the SAE level rankings of driving autonomy, you have to build its hive mind from experience. The input to hone that hive mind has to come in part from existing drivers, because technology does not have a complete database of global driving conditions.

    IBM's Watson is only smarter than people at medicine or at Jeopardy because it has read all the literature. Do you truly want to see a fleet of vacant, autonomous cars driving near you with "student driver" signs on the back?

    It would be irresponsible to try to leapfrog levels without knowing what could be learned at the previous level first. Lawsuits that you had unnecessarily skipped a level--thus making your AP a needlessly dangerous design--are risky business.

    But of course, once we do reach that Level 5, you will still have people hacking their own cars in order to make them work "better," otherwise meaning following their personally selected, unregulated, and unprofessionally tested ideas.

    In the professional testing lexicon, a "successful test" is not one which the product passes, it is one which genuinely determines whether or not the product works.
     
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