1. Tesla Model 3 apparel now available!


    Dismiss Notice

From Electrek: GM warns of potential battery degradation of up to 40% for Chevy Bolt EV...

Discussion in 'News from Electrek.co' started by RSSFeed, Dec 7, 2016.

More threads by RSSFeed
  1. RSSFeed

    M3OC RSS Bot
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2016
    Messages:
    2,666
    Likes Received:
    192
    Trophy Points:
    63
    GM warns of potential battery degradation of up to 40% for Chevy Bolt EV during warranty period or 100,000 miles

    [​IMG]

    Battery capacity degradation is to be expected with any battery-powered electric vehicle. The questions are how much degradation, how fast, and what is covered under the warranty. GM released the owner’s manual for the Chevy Bolt EV this week and in it, the automaker warns of potential battery degradation of up to 40% during the 8-year warranty period or within 100,000 miles. more…

    Filed under: Uncategorized [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG]

    Continue reading...
     
  2. Tom Bodera

    Active Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2016
    Messages:
    90
    Likes Received:
    51
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Gender:
    Male
    City & State/Province:
    Hillsburgh, ON, CA
    Holy cow. What a disappointment. So the leaf issues all over again. Good thing they will only make 30k a year then.

    You think a caviat like that would be in the contract and well known in advance.

    As an example my solar panels have a 20y 80% guarantee. Not apples to apples I know but come on.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Jayc

      Well-Known Member
      Expand Collapse

      Joined:
      May 19, 2016
      Messages:
      203
      Likes Received:
      53
      Trophy Points:
      28
      City & State/Province:
      UK
      Country:
      Country
      Hmm did I misread or Tesla has no clearly defined warranty cover at all on battery for normal degradation yet people are complaining about GM saying they will only cover if it lost more than 40% capacity.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
      • Tom Bodera

        Active Member
        Expand Collapse

        Joined:
        Aug 10, 2016
        Messages:
        90
        Likes Received:
        51
        Trophy Points:
        18
        Gender:
        Male
        City & State/Province:
        Hillsburgh, ON, CA
        • Informative Informative x 2
        • garsh

          Dis Member
          Moderator
          Expand Collapse

          Joined:
          Apr 4, 2016
          Messages:
          2,162
          Likes Received:
          1,196
          Trophy Points:
          113
          Gender:
          Male
          City & State/Province:
          Pittsburgh PA
          Country:
          Country
          Man, I wish Nissan would do that. I'm already down to about 2/3 of my original capacity.
           
        • TrevP

          M3OC Founder / Administrator
          Staff Member Founder
          Expand Collapse

          Joined:
          Mar 1, 2016
          Messages:
          3,016
          Likes Received:
          2,363
          Trophy Points:
          113
          Gender:
          Male
          City & State/Province:
          Aurora,Ontario
          Country:
          Country
          Folks, let's not pile up on GM just yet. Battery degradation is a real thing but I think in this case they're CYA (covering their asses) in the manual because of the lawsuits that will surely happen when people experience *some* range loss over time.

          We have plenty of experience and evidence about Tesla's cells and how they age (extremely well) but this is the first time that this many LG Chem prismatic cells have been used in a battery this size so we really don't know yet how much degradation will occur.
           
          • Like Like x 1
          • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
          • Tom Bodera

            Active Member
            Expand Collapse

            Joined:
            Aug 10, 2016
            Messages:
            90
            Likes Received:
            51
            Trophy Points:
            18
            Gender:
            Male
            City & State/Province:
            Hillsburgh, ON, CA
            I agree the Trevor but the issue is setting precedence. CYA is one thing. I am afraid of them setting a mentality that a 40% product degradation is acceptable with warranty when there is evidence to the contrary from the competition.

            Maybe I came off to hard on my first response. Must be my time of the month.
             
            • Funny Funny x 2
            • MichelT3

              Top-Contributor
              Expand Collapse

              Joined:
              Nov 16, 2016
              Messages:
              674
              Likes Received:
              338
              Trophy Points:
              63
              Gender:
              Male
              City & State/Province:
              Steenderen, Netherlands
              Country:
              Country
              It's also putting the ax to the young sapling of trust in EV's by the general public. Who's doubts are constantly being reconfirmed by the fossil ICE-producers.
              It would be much better if companies who put EV's on the market would say (like Tesla is doing in a way): "Don't worry, if degradation is excessive, we will solve your problem."
               
              • Agree Agree x 3
              • Michael Russo

                Top-Contributor
                Moderator
                Expand Collapse

                Joined:
                Oct 15, 2016
                Messages:
                3,036
                Likes Received:
                1,716
                Trophy Points:
                113
                Gender:
                Male
                City & State/Province:
                Belgium now, SW France when my Model ≡ gets here
                Country:
                Country
                Concern about T≡SLA batteries degradation? How about this one: Roadster, 5 years old, 75k miles, 101% retention! :D

                 
                • Love it! Love it! x 2
                • Like Like x 1
                • MichelT3

                  Top-Contributor
                  Expand Collapse

                  Joined:
                  Nov 16, 2016
                  Messages:
                  674
                  Likes Received:
                  338
                  Trophy Points:
                  63
                  Gender:
                  Male
                  City & State/Province:
                  Steenderen, Netherlands
                  Country:
                  Country
                  Which is another reason why the GM prediction is such an insult and blow to the BEV-sector.
                   
                  • Agree Agree x 3
                  • Dan Detweiler

                    Top-Contributor
                    Expand Collapse

                    Joined:
                    Apr 8, 2016
                    Messages:
                    772
                    Likes Received:
                    481
                    Trophy Points:
                    63
                    Gender:
                    Male
                    City & State/Province:
                    Canton, Georgia
                    Country:
                    Country
                    I think this probably represents the difference between the GM cells and the Tesla cells. It would be interesting to see a comparison of degradation between the two design choices.

                    Dan
                     
                    • Agree Agree x 3
                    • Like Like x 2
                    • MichelT3

                      Top-Contributor
                      Expand Collapse

                      Joined:
                      Nov 16, 2016
                      Messages:
                      674
                      Likes Received:
                      338
                      Trophy Points:
                      63
                      Gender:
                      Male
                      City & State/Province:
                      Steenderen, Netherlands
                      Country:
                      Country
                      That's very well possible @Dan Detweiler
                      My point: such an inferior solution undermines the trust people will have in BEV, slowing down the essential transition towards renewable energy consumption. Strengthening thoughts that old car manufacturers really are trying to postpone this transition.
                       
                      • Agree Agree x 1
                      • garsh

                        Dis Member
                        Moderator
                        Expand Collapse

                        Joined:
                        Apr 4, 2016
                        Messages:
                        2,162
                        Likes Received:
                        1,196
                        Trophy Points:
                        113
                        Gender:
                        Male
                        City & State/Province:
                        Pittsburgh PA
                        Country:
                        Country
                        Keep in mind, Tesla takes some chances with its battery pack design. In particular, we've all seen that they can undergo uncontrolled thermal reactions when damaged. The fires that have occurred start slowly enough that conscious occupants can safely escape before it gets bad, so I'm not too concerned.

                        Now, compare that to the Nissan Leaf.

                        I don't believe that there have been *any* cases of a Leaf's battery pack contributing to a fire in any way. I tried searching. The only fire-destroyed Leaf I found appeared to actually have it's battery pack intact, which is kind of amazing.

                        I assume that Nissan was really, really worried about how EVs would appear to the public if it were possible for the battery pack to erupt into flames. So they chose the safest cell chemistry available. It's inferior to Tesla's choice when it comes to degradation, but definitely superior for safety.
                         
                        • Informative Informative x 1
                        • MichelT3

                          Top-Contributor
                          Expand Collapse

                          Joined:
                          Nov 16, 2016
                          Messages:
                          674
                          Likes Received:
                          338
                          Trophy Points:
                          63
                          Gender:
                          Male
                          City & State/Province:
                          Steenderen, Netherlands
                          Country:
                          Country
                          How many fires with non-accidented Tesla cars have occurred? Do we know? In # and %?
                           
                        • garsh

                          Dis Member
                          Moderator
                          Expand Collapse

                          Joined:
                          Apr 4, 2016
                          Messages:
                          2,162
                          Likes Received:
                          1,196
                          Trophy Points:
                          113
                          Gender:
                          Male
                          City & State/Province:
                          Pittsburgh PA
                          Country:
                          Country
                          I only remember the one, during a test drive in France IIRC.
                           
                          • Like Like x 1
                          • MichelT3

                            Top-Contributor
                            Expand Collapse

                            Joined:
                            Nov 16, 2016
                            Messages:
                            674
                            Likes Received:
                            338
                            Trophy Points:
                            63
                            Gender:
                            Male
                            City & State/Province:
                            Steenderen, Netherlands
                            Country:
                            Country
                          • BigBri

                            Top-Contributor
                            Expand Collapse

                            Joined:
                            Jul 16, 2016
                            Messages:
                            483
                            Likes Received:
                            362
                            Trophy Points:
                            63
                            Gender:
                            Male
                            City & State/Province:
                            Toronto, Ontario
                            Country:
                            Country
                            Seems like covering their butt for sure but who knows. Will be interesting to see once they've got a lot of real world miles on them. This might be one thing that would kill my interest in one (if I wanted one). If the average car decays 5% but the one I theoretically had decays 35% GM would just say it's within their parameters despite being a huge outlier.
                             
                          • garsh

                            Dis Member
                            Moderator
                            Expand Collapse

                            Joined:
                            Apr 4, 2016
                            Messages:
                            2,162
                            Likes Received:
                            1,196
                            Trophy Points:
                            113
                            Gender:
                            Male
                            City & State/Province:
                            Pittsburgh PA
                            Country:
                            Country
                            • Like Like x 1
                            • MichelT3

                              Top-Contributor
                              Expand Collapse

                              Joined:
                              Nov 16, 2016
                              Messages:
                              674
                              Likes Received:
                              338
                              Trophy Points:
                              63
                              Gender:
                              Male
                              City & State/Province:
                              Steenderen, Netherlands
                              Country:
                              Country
                              Ah! Thanks!
                              So also one while charging in Norway. And I saw an article about one in the US on a streetcorner IIRC ;).
                              Do we know if it were all three early cars / if Tesla found out the reasons?
                              Not that I'm worried, just to know.
                               
                            • BigBri

                              Top-Contributor
                              Expand Collapse

                              Joined:
                              Jul 16, 2016
                              Messages:
                              483
                              Likes Received:
                              362
                              Trophy Points:
                              63
                              Gender:
                              Male
                              City & State/Province:
                              Toronto, Ontario
                              Country:
                              Country
                              The one in France I believe ended up being an electrical connection that wasn't robot done but human done so it wasn't quite right.
                               
                              • Informative Informative x 3
                              • Like Like x 1

                              Share This Page

                              Model 3 Owners Club © 2017. All rights reserved.
                              Model 3 Owners Club (M3OC) is an enthusiast club and is not affiliated with Tesla Motors or the Tesla Motors Club Forum (TMC).
                              All Tesla logos are trademarks or registered trademarks of Tesla Motors.