1. Tesla Model 3 apparel now available!


    Father's day is coming! Get something special for dad. Use coupon code "fathersday" for 10% off anything in our shop


    Dismiss Notice
  2. A meet-up for Model 3 Reservation Holders in Fremont?!

    Please visit the link below and help us make it happen.
    Model 3 Reservation Holders Fremont Meet-up Thread
  3. @TrevP will be attending the VIP Tesla event June 2 and get a private viewing of the Model 3. If you'd like to make a small donation to cover the flight and accommodations cost you can do it here via PayPal:
    Donate Now!
    Thanks for your support!
    Dismiss Notice

Heat in the cold weather?

Discussion in 'Tech Talk' started by Drew, Apr 8, 2016.

More threads by Drew
  1. Drew

    Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2016
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Gender:
    Male
    City & State/Province:
    Kalamazoo, MI
    New to Teslas, I put a deposit on Model 3 and have been reading like crazy ever since. Question to how the car "warms" up in the winter compared to a gasoline? Living in Michigan I am pretty interested on how the car will operate in the cold.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • TrevP

      M3OC Founder / Administrator
      Founder
      Expand Collapse

      Joined:
      Mar 1, 2016
      Messages:
      2,618
      Likes Received:
      1,713
      Trophy Points:
      113
      Gender:
      Male
      City & State/Province:
      Aurora,Ontario
      Country:
      Country
      The best part of the Tesla is that heat comes from a heating element and not having to wait for a cold engine to warm up. You get instant heat. However it's best if the car has been sitting overnight and the battery is cold soaked, to precondition the car. Basically it means leave it plugged in but with your remote app on your phone, turn on the interior heat. The car will heat the interior and also the battery at the same time pulling from shore power. This ensures you don't waste energy heating the car and battery from just battery power.
       
      • Like Like x 1
      • Informative Informative x 1
      • Drew

        Member
        Expand Collapse

        Joined:
        Apr 4, 2016
        Messages:
        24
        Likes Received:
        3
        Trophy Points:
        3
        Gender:
        Male
        City & State/Province:
        Kalamazoo, MI
        Awesome good to know. Saw a Model S today and got me even more excited, when though still probably at least a year and a half away.
         
      • Van Shrider

        Active Member
        Expand Collapse

        Joined:
        Apr 2, 2016
        Messages:
        93
        Likes Received:
        50
        Trophy Points:
        18
        Gender:
        Male
        Occupation:
        Flavor Chemist
        City & State/Province:
        Ohio USA
        If it is -10F outside. How long will it take to heat up the batteries properly before departure?
         
      • TrevP

        M3OC Founder / Administrator
        Founder
        Expand Collapse

        Joined:
        Mar 1, 2016
        Messages:
        2,618
        Likes Received:
        1,713
        Trophy Points:
        113
        Gender:
        Male
        City & State/Province:
        Aurora,Ontario
        Country:
        Country
        You can precondition up to 30 minutes at a time. My math is rough on the F to C conversion but 30 minutes ought to do the trick. Tesla's have a 6Kwh heater in the cars so it heats up really quickly.

        Bjørn did a great video on preheating (preconditioning):

         
        • Informative Informative x 2
        • Like Like x 1
        • Agree Agree x 1
        • JeffinAZ

          Active Member
          Expand Collapse

          Joined:
          Apr 5, 2016
          Messages:
          59
          Likes Received:
          13
          Trophy Points:
          8
          Gender:
          Male
          Occupation:
          Chartered Financial Analyst (CFA)
          City & State/Province:
          Scottsdale, AZ
          I'm more interested in how in how the A/C will function in the 100F+ temps we get here in AZ...
           
        • TrevP

          M3OC Founder / Administrator
          Founder
          Expand Collapse

          Joined:
          Mar 1, 2016
          Messages:
          2,618
          Likes Received:
          1,713
          Trophy Points:
          113
          Gender:
          Male
          City & State/Province:
          Aurora,Ontario
          Country:
          Country
          A/C in the Tesla works fine. Tesla did their car testing in extremes such as Norway and Death Valley.
           
        • JeffinAZ

          Active Member
          Expand Collapse

          Joined:
          Apr 5, 2016
          Messages:
          59
          Likes Received:
          13
          Trophy Points:
          8
          Gender:
          Male
          Occupation:
          Chartered Financial Analyst (CFA)
          City & State/Province:
          Scottsdale, AZ
          Thanks for the info, Trevor! Now I'm really jazzed!
           
          • Like Like x 1
          • teslaliving

            Well-Known Member
            Expand Collapse

            Joined:
            Apr 2, 2016
            Messages:
            387
            Likes Received:
            136
            Trophy Points:
            43
            Gender:
            Male
            City & State/Province:
            Boston
            Country:
            Country
            The heater can draw a lot of power so generally you leave it in range mode (which is lower power). Preheating saves you from getting into a cold car and I use it all the time in the winter. Only on VERY cold days do you need to turn on the higher power heat option but you then need to watch range.
             
            • Like Like x 1
            • garsh

              Dis Member
              Expand Collapse

              Joined:
              Apr 4, 2016
              Messages:
              1,232
              Likes Received:
              714
              Trophy Points:
              113
              Gender:
              Male
              City & State/Province:
              Pittsburgh PA
              Country:
              Country
              I can't wait to get a 3.

              I never use the heater in my Nissan Leaf because of how much it shortens the range. I just use the seat & steering wheel heaters, and bundle up.
               
            • Skione65

              Well-Known Member
              Expand Collapse

              Joined:
              Apr 4, 2016
              Messages:
              252
              Likes Received:
              82
              Trophy Points:
              28
              Gender:
              Male
              City & State/Province:
              Kentucky
              Country:
              Country

              TL,

              How cold is VERY COLD? And what kind of hit do you take on the range? I know it will depend on how 'hot' you run the heater.

              Ski
               
            • EV_Future

              Member
              Expand Collapse

              Joined:
              Mar 14, 2016
              Messages:
              9
              Likes Received:
              4
              Trophy Points:
              3
              Occupation:
              IT
              City & State/Province:
              Ontario, Canada
              I saw a video by Byorn, where he did several tests with no preheating and range mode off, no preheating and range mode on, then with preheating and at last recharging the car before the trip, which heats the battery at the same time.
              In the first case he got 40% range loss, then 30% range loss, then 20% range loss. So precharging right before the trip wins.
               
              • Informative Informative x 2
              • TrevP

                M3OC Founder / Administrator
                Founder
                Expand Collapse

                Joined:
                Mar 1, 2016
                Messages:
                2,618
                Likes Received:
                1,713
                Trophy Points:
                113
                Gender:
                Male
                City & State/Province:
                Aurora,Ontario
                Country:
                Country
                Yes, this is exactly why I mention in my videos that Lithium cells need to be thermally managed. They like to operate ideally at 28° centigrade. Low temps affect the chemistry a lot. If you leave a car outside in temperature extremes to "cold soak" the battery you get range loss. It's exacerbated by not plugging in the car because the battery will use energy from itself to run the heat pumps. So the moral here is "leave the car plugged into shore power" whenever possible.
                 
              • garsh

                Dis Member
                Expand Collapse

                Joined:
                Apr 4, 2016
                Messages:
                1,232
                Likes Received:
                714
                Trophy Points:
                113
                Gender:
                Male
                City & State/Province:
                Pittsburgh PA
                Country:
                Country
                To clarify, this range loss is large, but temporary. Range returns when the temperature rises again.
                At least, this has been my experience with my non-thermally-managed Leaf.
                 
                • Informative Informative x 1
                • Skione65

                  Well-Known Member
                  Expand Collapse

                  Joined:
                  Apr 4, 2016
                  Messages:
                  252
                  Likes Received:
                  82
                  Trophy Points:
                  28
                  Gender:
                  Male
                  City & State/Province:
                  Kentucky
                  Country:
                  Country

                  Ok.....here's my question. Actually afew. I watched Byorns video on heat and range mode, VERY informative. Excellent video. Answered a lot of questions for me.

                  Question 1.

                  I'm going to be leaving my car in an airport parking lot frequently for 4 days at a time cold soaking in the winter before I return to then drive 90 miles home (no shore power), more than likely AFTER driving 85-90 miles TO the airport....all on a single charge (things that make you say hmmmmmmm)!!! (I have been waiting Sooooooo long for this car, all it is, and the increased range-YES I WILL be paying whatever the cost for the larger battery). RANGE will be of utmost importance. What will be the best way to manage the lithium battery power concerning energy conservation in the winter with interior heat and battery usage. I know I'll need to keep the interior heat use to a MINIMUM to keep the range up, however I will NOT have shore power to pre charge, only ships power which will 'kill" range I imagine, looking at Byorns multiple tests and a 40% range decrease worst case with no Range Mode and no precharge.

                  Question 2.

                  Byron says it is considerably more efficient to use JUST the seat heater and not the cabin heater as far as the hit on range. Specs on the Model 3 are anybody's guess right now. My question is, I am not interested in leather interior. Never been a fan of leather. LOVE how it looks but just not practical for me. Prefer cloth. No flames please. I understand the pros and cons of each. Will the 3 even "offer" heated seats in cloth (ala the old Saab cloth interior heated seats which worked GREAT) or will they only be available in the leather premium upgrade? Hopefully the former and I'll be a happy camper.

                  Any advice and management expertise from 'S' owners please chime in.

                  Thanks in Advance for your expertise.

                  Ski
                   
                  • Like Like x 1
                  • Dan Detweiler

                    Top-Contributor
                    Expand Collapse

                    Joined:
                    Apr 8, 2016
                    Messages:
                    681
                    Likes Received:
                    392
                    Trophy Points:
                    63
                    Gender:
                    Male
                    City & State/Province:
                    Canton, Georgia
                    Country:
                    Country
                    Can't speak as an "S" owner...not even close!

                    But, I can speak as a Volt owner for the last 4 years. Heated seats make all the difference. Running them on cold winter mornings takes the edge off and results in very little range loss. Running the cabin heater drains the range significantly (15-20% in some cases). Another thing I have found to make a huge difference in my comfort is a heated steering wheel. I don't have it on my Volt but we do have it on my wife's Hyundai. If my hands and my butt are warm I am comfortable with no need for cabin heat.

                    I will definitely be getting the winter package on my Model 3 even though I live in Georgia. On winter mornings when it is down in the 20s it will make my commute a much more enjoyable experience. Also, don't forget that you can preheat your car before you unplug in the mornings. This makes a big difference too.

                    Dan
                     
                  • Skione65

                    Well-Known Member
                    Expand Collapse

                    Joined:
                    Apr 4, 2016
                    Messages:
                    252
                    Likes Received:
                    82
                    Trophy Points:
                    28
                    Gender:
                    Male
                    City & State/Province:
                    Kentucky
                    Country:
                    Country
                    Dan,

                    Thank you for that information! Is your Volt cloth? Interesting about the difference a heated steering wheel makes. Impressive. Has Elon disclosed what the 'Winter Package' will include?

                    Ski
                     
                  • Dan Detweiler

                    Top-Contributor
                    Expand Collapse

                    Joined:
                    Apr 8, 2016
                    Messages:
                    681
                    Likes Received:
                    392
                    Trophy Points:
                    63
                    Gender:
                    Male
                    City & State/Province:
                    Canton, Georgia
                    Country:
                    Country
                    My Volt is leather. I assume the winter package for the Model 3 will be the same as for the Model S.

                    Dan
                     
                  • TrevP

                    M3OC Founder / Administrator
                    Founder
                    Expand Collapse

                    Joined:
                    Mar 1, 2016
                    Messages:
                    2,618
                    Likes Received:
                    1,713
                    Trophy Points:
                    113
                    Gender:
                    Male
                    City & State/Province:
                    Aurora,Ontario
                    Country:
                    Country
                    +1 on heated seats / colt weather package in cold climes. I have heated/cooled seats and a heated steering wheel in my car and I would never buy a car without them.

                    You've never lived until you've experienced a heated steering wheel in the winter ;)
                     
                    • Like Like x 3
                    • Dan Detweiler

                      Top-Contributor
                      Expand Collapse

                      Joined:
                      Apr 8, 2016
                      Messages:
                      681
                      Likes Received:
                      392
                      Trophy Points:
                      63
                      Gender:
                      Male
                      City & State/Province:
                      Canton, Georgia
                      Country:
                      Country

                    Share This Page

                    Model 3 Owners Club © 2017. All rights reserved.
                    Model 3 Owners Club (M3OC) is an enthusiast club and is not affiliated with Tesla Motors or the Tesla Motors Club Forum (TMC).
                    All Tesla logos are trademarks or registered trademarks of Tesla Motors.