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Heat pump

Discussion in 'Tech Talk' started by Michel Cote, May 25, 2016.

More threads by Michel Cote
  1. Michel Cote

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    I read that model S has a simple heating element to heat the cabin.
    Nissan Leaf have now a reversed AC called heat pump.

    Is Tesla going to use a heat pump that can reduce by 66% the energy required to heat the cabin ?
    Instead of 6kW heating element it would use 2kW heat pump to bring 6kW to the cabin

    It's current technology to reverse the AC cycle to heat. Many houses have that as well as Nissan leaf.

    It would help range in the winter.
     
  2. MelindaV

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    read thru this post on TeslaMotors forum that ask why Tesla is not using a heat pump system that Nissan claims to be so much more efficient. Overall, I believe the system Nissan was using prior to their heat pump sucked. So it may sound like going with the heat pump is so much better, but really only relative to the inefficient system they had prior.
     
  3. Michel Cote

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    politely, do we know if M3 will have a heat pump ?
    If we dont know, it's ok.

    Regards
     
  4. Dan Detweiler

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    Nope, I don't think that has been stated yet. At least I have not heard it mentioned anywhere.

    Dan
     
  5. Michel Cote

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    Thanks

    Time will tell.
     
  6. Pinewold

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    Everybody might want to go back and read that thread, it is a excellent example of a few people who know what they are talking about (heatpump enthusiasts) trying to drag Luddities out of the twenty century. While a few of the concerns were true twenty years ago, they have long since been solved.

    For the record
    1) Icing is no longer an issue for heatpumps (they defrost just like a freezer)
    2) Heatpumps work in a wide temperature range (wherever AC works to cool, and down to -5 Fahrenheit -20 C) They are installed from Canada to Texas.
    3) Heatpumps use about 1/3 the electricity of resistance heating by moving heat
    4) The only real difference between AC and a heatpump is a reversing valve
    5) Air sourced Heatpumps do not require a ground source(well, pond, river)

    Tesla's all come with AC, they come with over 95% of the parts needed for a heat pump. Even keeping the resistance heat as a backup is low cost.
     
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    • Topher

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      All resistive heat is basically the same, and has the same efficiency. One would need to screw things up pretty badly to make an inefficient resistive heating system.

      Heat pumps on the other hand move heat around, so they can acheive an 'efficiency' of around 300-400% (by not counting the heat from the environment). Since you don't generally PAY for the heat in the environment this mostly works.

      Thank you kindly.
       
    • garsh

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      To get the car to market quickly, they used a regular car heating system which uses engine coolant. But since there's nothing in the Leaf that gets hot enough to make the coolant hot, they used resistive heaters to heat the engine coolant. The coolant then heats the air. A very inefficient system. I believe they've since added direct resistive heating elements inside the cabin in addition to the heat pump.
       
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      • chopr147

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        Heat pump enthusiasts? Is there a forum for that? :)
         
      • Englander

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        Can any of the Tesla drivers here tell us how detrimental the Tesla heater is to range?

        I've got a 2015 Leaf, with the heat pump, and last winter we used the heater without even thinking about it, and the heater is very effective. The predicted range reduction was only ever 4-5 miles. That was over the UK winter with temps hovering around freezing.

        So if that is a lot better than the Tesla resistive heater, plus one here for the heat pump idea!
         
      • Topher

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        No idea what the heating system actually uses, but I suspect it can't be much over 1kW (for heat, seats, defroster, etc.). So 5% of the power needed for driving 60 mph. Cuts your range from 215 to 204 (not including other wintertime losses).

        Thank you kindly.
         
      • Englander

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        On the Leaf I do know, as there is a seperate power meter for the climate control. When it's first turned on in cold weather it starts off drawing about 3kW, then once the cabin is up to temperature, usually within a couple of minutes, it drops to around 1kW, switching in and out to maintain the temperature.

        As I said before, the impact on range is minimal, anything between 2 and 5 miles, so I would say the heat pump model sounds more efficient than the Tesla heater from what you say.
         
      • MelindaV

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        there was a youtube video link I posted a while back of a Canadian family (Michael Subasic from Calgary)on a road trip to So.California. In the video he commented the climate control makes little difference to the range. Speed and road conditions do. so be comfortable and warm and slow down a bit if you want to extend range.
         
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        • chopr147

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          Or freeze your ass off just to get to the next supercharger :)
           
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          • teslaliving

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            The problem with heat pumps for heating is they're only good down to a certain temperature then you need a backup heating option. One of the ideas above to use a combination for efficiency seems to make sense although it may add cost.

            Tesla has gotten away with the current system for years and the Model 3 has smaller interior space to heat (although a smaller battery too) so it may not be as large an issue.

            Generally, though, the heater in the Model S is not very good so i'd hate to see them use one that has even less chance of getting the job done.
             
          • Dan Detweiler

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            Move to Georgia...problem solved. ;)

            Dan
             
          • teslaliving

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            I was thinking NC
             
          • Dan Detweiler

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            You don't want to move to North Carolina. You have to worry about what bathroom to use.
            Oh wait...wrong forum for that, sorry.

            Dan
             
          • Badback

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            Or, we could move Georgia to North Dakota.
             
          • teslaliving

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            No difference than MA. There's a lot of good reasons for getting out of MA.
             

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