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Interesting 3rd party survey of Model 3 Reservation holders conducted by competitor

Discussion in 'Reserving, Ordering, Production, Delivery' started by AEDennis, Mar 8, 2017.

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  1. AEDennis

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    #1 AEDennis, Mar 8, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2017
    Edward Niedermeyer has been called many things, but one thing I've always valued is the contrary opinion on things that I hold dear. And I am a big Tesla fan.

    However, repair and service has been a challenge for some. I've been lucky, and that's always been the positive in MY experience. But I do know some who have had repair nightmares.

    The Daily Kanban was able to get access to a third-party survey of Model 3 reservationists by a competitor of Tesla and wrote about the findings and expectations of these reservation holders.

    It confirms what many of us suspect. Tesla has a big challenge ahead of it and the expectations of all these new owners are going to be hard to fulfill and we all hope for its success. (PS: I am LONG on the stock, but more importantly, I believe in Tesla and EVs and clean technology in general.)
     
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    • InElonWeTrust

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      Very informative article, thanks for sharing.
       
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      • AEDennis

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        It's important to look at reputable news sources. Even ones that may have coverage that at times may be unpleasant or contrary to my pro-Tesla biases. Niedermeyer is often unfairly vilified by a lot of fellow Tesla fans because he questions the overwhelmingly positive tone that we're often presented with. He actually is very pro-EV, just wants Tesla to be held to objective standards. Something that is very difficult because of the emotion that is very much a part of the Tesla brand.
         
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        • Michael Russo

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          Thank you, Dennis. You are also right about the wide spread in value of news sources...
          Building on one of the key learnings from this article, I would add, stuck in traffic on my way to work in my X5..., that expectations of superior vehicle quality & reliability are not only going to be found in current Toyota owners, but also with those of BMW, precisely one of the leading brands T≡SLA is targeting... :)
          So, yes, let's hope Elon & team have got this on their radar screen... :rainbow:
           
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          • TrevP

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            Thanks for sharing that. I have to agree on the service aspect that Tesla really needs to get their collective you know what in order before Model 3 arrives.

            As for quality I'm going to wait and see what happens. I can say that even a brand new Model S that a friend purchasd has some uneven panel gaps, something BMW has sorted out quite well, but I'm willing to give a pass on given my brand new Lincoln has bad panel gaps on the hood and tailgate, something you'd expect Ford to have sorted out on a luxury car... oh well.

            Model 3 represents a "reset" for Tesla in many ways. This can be both good and bad. Good because they designed it from scratch with lots of Model S and X experience but could be bad due to it being all new and unproven.

            Tesla has everything, literally the whole company, riding on the Model 3 success and they know it. Can you imagine the pressure they're under to make sure this car is a success?? Let's just hope they indeed have their priories, quality control, testing, production, service etc straight.
             
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            • BigBri

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              Really interesting article. Lots of Prius owners must be ready to take the next step. It's interesting to compare those demographics to those we have here on the forum. Seems very different but it's safe to say a lot of us are more on the enthusiast or obsessed levels! I don't have my Model3 thankyou card stuck between my wall of guitars above my deak or anything ;)
               
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              • KenR

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                i wonder where the 3rd party OEM got a list of current Model 3 Reservation Holders to survey?
                 
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                • AEDennis

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                  It's called sampling. Marketing research companies find the reservation holders for their opinions...

                  Usually, when participating in these things, the research companies require proof before being let in the study. The participants in these studies are often compensated for their time... so, folks are motivated to show up.
                   
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                  • Red Sage

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                    Niedermeier deserves every ounce of vilification that he earns with his extremely biased and completely off-base opinions expressed through leading, rhetorical questions put forth as if only he knows the answer -- but he's not talking -- just like every other Tesla Naysayer that falsely claims to present a 'contrary' viewpoint on the company.
                     
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                    • John

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                      It's smart to stay in touch with contrasting opinions.
                      That having been said, isn't Neidermeyer the guy who was taking other peoples' accident pictures and filing NHTSB complaints about suspensions?
                       
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                      • AEDennis

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                        As the OP of this thread and having spent some time In actual discussion and debate with Edward Niedermeyer at EV Roadmap in Portland, OR last Summer, I can attest that his motivations for holding Tesla to its standards is borne not of malice but of the desire to ensure that expectations and success is for he whole EV movement. Though I disagree with many of his positions I agree with the premise that Tesla needs to provide the public with less hype and deliver what it promises. I want ICE to disappear and Tesla needs to deliver things without missing expectations, and too many things about Tesla can be forgiven by its fans (of which I am one of) but I also fear that the public is not as forgiving as I.

                        He is a reporter with a bias toward all EVs. Even if that means pointing out Tesla's deficiencies.
                         
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                        • Badback

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                          His actions betray his intentions.
                           
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                          • Gabzqc

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                            IF one clicks on his name at the top of the article, you will see all he has written for that website, and get a true flavor of his attitude towards Tesla
                             
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                            • John

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                              It's one thing to question a company's product safety or design, it's another to take accident photos that had nothing to do with suspensions and file claims with the NHTSB about suspensions.
                              https://electrek.co/2016/06/13/tesla-fale-complaints-suspension-nhtsa-keef-wivaneff/
                              He actively works against Tesla (read his derisive tweet stream), and not in a way that I would say is constructive. The background picture on his Twitter account is a rusty Tesla logo. He has a personal vendetta against Tesla which he pours a lot of time into.

                              Personally, I don't like most EVs. So "a bias towards all EVs" doesn't make up for him actively working against the one company that makes one I do like.
                               
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                              • AEDennis

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                                @John Tesla's allegations against Niedermeyer are baseless. They hypothesize that he is shorting the company, but he holds no positions in these stocks. The same can not be said about MANY of us who write pro-Tesla articles. (look at the disclosures of folks who have posted for pro-Tesla publications and see that the more honest ones state that they are LONG TSLA or at least maintain positions in clean tech stocks.)

                                Quality control continues to improve. However, I know of many Tesla owners who are happy with their cars, EVEN with many complaints that have come up in their own vehicles. Antagonists are there to hold a light for our PROTAGONIST. Tesla is awesome. They're just not perfect.

                                My goal (as was Tesla's stated goal) is the electrification of transport and I was miffed (as an investor) when they opened up their patents. I thought that it was crazy and may take away from future returns. However, I understood that this was in line with the goal of electrifying the future. One can see the announcement from Chargepoint about their future DCFC network as evidence of the benefit of Tesla opening up their patent portfolio as their announced 400kW network is very much architected the same scalable way that the supercharger network was built.

                                As for a personal vendetta, as a professional antagonist of Tesla's he generates thoughtful opposition to many things that owners and future owners should consider when making the decision to "go Tesla." I am a happier Tesla owner, even knowing that there are instances when Tesla could have done better. I still hate the fact that Tesla provides no warranty for battery degradation. I still think that misalignment with some of the door panels and the like is irritating (my S has some flaws, but I still love and drive it wherever I can (and when we're not driving my wife's Roadster.))

                                You will be a happier Tesla owner if you look at the ownership experience with both eyes open. Just because someone says something negative about Tesla doesn't automatically make them an idiot, read the analysis, I root for Tesla to show these guys wrong as they have done in the past, but be prepared for the naysayers and see what they have to say. Agree to disagree.

                                It's not all roses. But it's also not all crap. It's something in between, and in Tesla's case, I feel it's closer to the roses than the crap.
                                 
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                                • John

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                                  What are we to make of somehow who spends so much time amplifying problems, and questioning the motivation of Tesla employees? Who uses words like "ploy" and "gimmick" when describing what they do? How is Niedermeyer furthering the goal of keeping Tesla accountable by calling for the number of Model 3 reservations to be published on his tweet stream, as if it's a damning statistic? Why does he delight in a survey that shows that reservation holders have lower incomes than current Tesla owners, and thus may be less likely to spend much on options and upgrades?

                                  Most likely answer: because he wants the company's stock price to fall.
                                   
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                                  • AEDennis

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                                    I hypothesize that he generates his revenue from folks reading his articles and carrying an antagonistic view of Tesla generates a lot of views.

                                    And frankly, there are many things that Tesla does that can be described as a gimmick...

                                    Battery swap. Charging snake. To name a few... If I were more cynical, AP 2.0 in the short term sure feels like a gimmick. Folks with AP 1.0 cars currently have more capabilities than 2.0 cars.

                                    Tesla is awesome. But it constantly pushes the boundaries and that behavior is great for early adopters, but I fear it MAY be detrimental to the next set of owners. I am already constantly faced by new S and X owners who don't understand some of the changes in behavior and responsibility that occur with EV ownership.

                                    Either way, it is important to not live in a vacuum of ONLY good Tesla news. It's unrealistic and we need to balance out reality so that all owners are able to understand that even with all it's spots, Tesla is better than any other provider out there... and to ensure that Tesla stays in that pre-eminent position.
                                     
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                                    • Red Sage

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                                      I do not believe that rhetoric rises to the level of 'news'. I believe Niedermier has also taken part in episodes of a Detroit based extremely anti-Tesla show called 'AUTOLINE'. You can find them on YouTube.

                                      I'm a longtime 'car guy'. It seems unfair that Tesla is called out by these 'contrary' viewpoints because of 'hype'. Every single major automobile manufacturer engages in hype. It is a standard issue marketing ploy. Difference is, the production Pontiac TransSport debuted with sliding doors, though its concept has a liftup door... While the Model X has Falcon Wing Doors. It's not hype if you actually intend to do it.
                                       
                                    • AEDennis

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                                      #19 AEDennis, Mar 10, 2017
                                      Last edited: Mar 10, 2017
                                      Hype and marketing are a fact of selling cars. If you look at my list of hype for Tesla it includes those things that Tesla hasn't delivered at this time.

                                      As for the FWD. I was part of the group that thought it to be excessive. It is cool, especially when it works. But I know of many who have problems with their Xs. So was that hype? Yes and no.

                                      I welcome contrarians, it strengthens my resolve that Tesla continues to be the right choice for me.
                                       
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                                      • Red Sage

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                                        My point is that Tesla will deliver.
                                         
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