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Is the S better than 3 or only by a Little?

Discussion in 'Design' started by Vin, Apr 10, 2017.

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  1. Vin

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    #1 Vin, Apr 10, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2017
    This isn't a competition between S and 3, I'm just curious to know if there really are big enough differences between the 3 and S?
    Is the S worth 2 or 3 times as much money? Are there 2 or 3 times the features?

    The reason I ask is whenever I see Tesla mention it, (even from last April during test drives when the engineers would say stuff like "The S screen still sets the standard, the S is the car you still want for performance, etc), which is understandable and should be for a premium model, I just don't see huge differences, or at least not enough that there's a big gap like an Iphone SE vs. Iphone 7.

    My favorite review was Evannex (on launch night), when they were very pumped over how great the 3 seemed to handle and other features that were way beyond expectations.

    What are these "extra features" that the S will have over the 3?

    If they both have the same autopilot, the same base 0-60 of about 5.2 seconds (3 might be even faster), the same 5 star safety ratings, then what are the main differences?

    I know the 3 was built from the ground up using what they've learned from the S and X (which might even be a slight advantage to 3), but other than the Performance model time of the S being faster, and the range of the S being longer (yes that's a point to make), but...

    Are there any other technical or engineering differences to make the S far superior? (all aluminum vs steel with aluminum, but does that really matter that much)?

    I'm just really asking because I don't know. The S does have more, but is it really that much more?

    I love all Teslas, but I'm just not seeing a huge difference when they say the S will always be more advanced. Will the S at some point have a HUD and not the 3?

    Am I just missing something? (I only test drove one, and yes it was amazing).

    What would Tesla hold back from the 3 and only give to S and X?

    I'm honestly just curious and maybe Elon is really downplaying how good the 3 really is?...
     
  2. Badback

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    IMNSHO, the main differences are what you see on the surface, size, luxury appointments (maybe not so much), special features like the binnacle. Maybe the quality of the seats and some interior appointments are better on the S.
    What you don't see on the surface is another matter. Will the Model 3 have the same suspension design as the Model S, remains to be seen but I would say yes. So, the excellent handling should be about the same. Maybe some of the components are steel instead of aluminum.
    Is the chassis layout the same, absolutely. We have already seen it at the first reveal.
    I assume that the motor(s) in the Model 3 will be smaller, less torque and HP, and the inverters will also be smaller.
    The 3's maximum battery size will be smaller than the S, 75kWh vs. 100kWh.
    We sort of know that some of the construction will be steel but we don't know where. I am hoping that what steel there is will not be exposed to the weather or will have really excellent rust prevention.
    The Autopilot hardware is the same. We know about the differences in the display and assume that the GUI will be similar.
    The Model 3 is very definitely recognizable as a Tesla, it has the same DNA.
    It is kind of like asking: How is the BMW 3 series different than the BMW 7 series?
     
  3. Gary Moore

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    You're likely not missing anything; you just haven't arranged the pieces to map out the big picture. Get the version you want.

    In the current global economy, the folks at the top of the money piles are disproportionately funded under the current rules of the game, and that also varies by region. That's how the cards were dealt, and that's how the game goes on.

    Is a CEO in the USA really worth many times the compensation received by a CEO in Mexico not named Carlos Slim? Maybe not, but that is how the game is being played.

    If you need seven seats because you travel in a family herd, then you won't fit them in a Model 3. You need an S for that. Same thing applies if you intend to drive through a biological weapons attack. To each one's own. I personally tend to drive away from biological attacks. We usually by clothes that fit; yet, sometimes we don't so others will stare.

    Without a Model S, there would not be a Model 3. Ask a Tyrannosaurus how being big worked out. Oh, things aren't all they appear to be, are they? Nice teeth you have, Grandma! It's not survival of the fittest, it's survival of those who fit the environment. Your mileage may vary.

    When asked about his chosen career, Willie Sutton once said, "I rob banks because that's where the money is."

    When Elon Musk seeks money for Tesla, why not get a giant Chinese internet company involved? That's where the money is.

    When you have much more money than the average Joe, you need to do something with it, or else the game seems silly. Probably, spending twice the amount to eat cheeseburgers as the next guy is not the best option in town.. How about an buying a bigger EV?

    If you have the physique of an NFL lineman, you don't tend to shop in the petite section. It's just different than being a toddler.

    If you really must take six others on a date, order the S or the X.

    If you can't get a date this week, the 3 will manage to seem cavernous.

    As they said in the Seventies, go with the flow.
     
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    • RickDeckard

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      I do hope Tesla will find ways to improve Model S as we know it right now (even if I'm not getting an S), instead of limiting Model 3, and for the future S family guy owners I hope the next refresh of Model S will include door storage (which Model 3 and every car I've ever owned have)
       
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      • Red Sage

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        Depends upon how big you think 'a little' is...
         
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        • MelindaV

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          well, here's the "door storage" on my current Franz designed car. Perfect if you need to store a couple pencils or random crumbies... so door pockets have not been something he's been concerned with for a while.
          (only 1 of the 4 cars I've owned HAVE had door pockets, excluding the Solstice of course).
          [​IMG]
          (google provided pix)
           
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          • RickDeckard

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            Solstice door storage: In my case this type of shape and location would most likely gather snow, dirt, tiny rocks, leaves, coniferous needles, etc.

            'only 1 of the 4 cars'... wow, Im so used to think family sedan when I think about a car that I hadn't thought there were car without storage, but if these were like the Solstice I can understand that storage and utility might not have been the cars' primary features. ;)
             
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            • SoFlaModel3

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              #8 SoFlaModel3, Apr 25, 2017
              Last edited: Apr 25, 2017
              In my opinion, the S is not worth double on the base end of the 3. Taking that a step further, I am convinced that the Model 3 that I want with options bringing the car to somewhere in the mid to high $40s will be much better than a base Model S at $70k.

              However, there are a few things that make the S "better".
              • It's size -- flagship sedans are always the biggest (see Mercedes S, Audi A8, and BMW 7).
              • Performance
              • Range
              • Appointments
              • Potential options
              • Exclusivity (Limited quanity in comparison)
              It's all a matter of what you're looking for and what you're willing to spend. If you have the means to option out an S, then it's going to be substantially better than the 3.
               
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              • Badback

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                I think you meant better than the 3.
                 
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                • Badback

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                  I don't drive an S for the same reason that I don't drive a Rolls Royce.
                   
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                  • SoFlaModel3

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                    Edited, thanks!
                     
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                    • Les Inanchy

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                      I reserved a Model 3 in 3-31-16 in San Jise Californua, about 60th in line. After waiting a year, when I heard about the MS 60 being discontinued, I thought I'd take one last look, since it was really out if my budget. We originally took a test drive in a model S over a year ago. Or second test drive was just as impressive. We sat down and looked at the availability of inventory models. There was a black model S 60 that had been ordered previously and the order was canceled. This car had several advantages. First it was available within a weeks time. Second it was one of the last ones that still had lifetime unlimited supercharger access. This was a very big plus. Also, as a model S 60, The battery was upgradable to 75 kWh. This really turned out to be a great thing, since after the 60s were discontinued, they reduce the upgrade price to only $2000 from what was previously I think about $8000. We didn't get the color I really wanted (red), but it did come with a sunroof which we wanted. It's got the basic interior and the basic sound system and 19 inch wheels, but it actually gets better mileage with that size wheel, and the tires are less expensive. All in all, my only regret, is not being able to use my reservation for a model three. I guess I shouldn't complain because the model S is a fantastic car and I don't regret it one minute despite the cost.
                       
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                      • Les Inanchy

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                        I forgot to add another reason I made the decision to get the model S. The tax credit! I was really concerned that by the time I got a model three in the configuration I wanted, the tax credit wouldn't be available. As it is, I'll get the tax credit against my model S and have a great car on top Of it!
                         
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                        • TrevP

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                          I would have done the same thing if the Model S wasn't so godamned expensive up here...
                           
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                          • Rick59

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                            Ow, my sensitive ears! Is there a foul language rule on his forum? You're right, though, it's damn expensive.
                             
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                            • @gravityrydr

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                              Sure there isn't a relative you could interest in taking that reservation off your hands?
                               
                            • JBsC6

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                              The s is the top of the line....and much larger than the upcoming model 3.

                              That's all any of us know at this point. Wait for the reviews from automotive journalist soon enough...although I believe we will see reviews and tests comparing the BMW 3 series versus the model 3 more often...

                              Just imagine a BMW comparision test between the 7 series and the 3 series sedans....that's pretty much what the tesla model S versus a tesla model 3 comparision test should be...
                               
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                              • Martin Lacey

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                                The Model 3 motor is a new design for efficiency gains and as you say is smaller, lighter and less powerful!
                                 
                              • arnis

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                                You are asking it in the wrong way. Correct question would be:
                                "what are those features, that will be missing on Model 3.". Or to be more precise, what features will not be standard.
                                And there will be many of those.
                                I will guess some (copied things from Tesla specs):
                                Onboard maps and navigation with free updates for 7 years- not sure that full Google Maps will be available. At least not satellite view. Tesla will limit the amount of data car will send/receive.
                                Automatic keyless entry - not sure that would be as good as on S/X. Though same sensors are used for keyless start, that will be standard, very likely.
                                Electrochromatic mirrors - definitely will not be standard. Likely to be available as an option, at least interior mirror.
                                Twelve way power adjustable, heated front seats with memory and driver profile - definitely not standard.
                                First of all, no more than 8-way manual seats. Upgradable. Seat heating might be standard, but not memory (not possible with manual seats). Steering column will not be electric as standard. Though possible upgrade, not sure.
                                Available Smart Air Suspension for raising and lowering ride height - definitely not standard and very likely not an option at all.
                                HEPA air filtration system - not standard. Biodefence mode likely not an option.
                                Lighted door handles - noup, not inside, not outside. And not even an option.
                                Interior accent lighting - noup. Most likely not an option either.
                                Now standard with automatic rear liftgate - not standard. Possibly not upgradable.
                                Full LED headlights and foglights - not likely. Though definitely upgradable.

                                Much much MUCH MUCH less trim parts inside and outside. Not only trim parts, the whole number of parts vehicle is made of
                                will be heavily reduced. But trim is what people see. Most noticeable is the interior. Even on Model S it was already "a problem" - not a lot of "bling" (aka chrome/brushed aluminum pieces, knobs, curves, seams etc). There will be even less on Model 3. We can start with missing adjustable airvents or possibly even less configurations for air distribution (idea is to reduce number of climate control servos down to 2 - one for air direction, one for fresh/recirc/supress.

                                Autopilot:
                                all around parking sensors -
                                adaptive cruise control -
                                high beam assist -
                                All those must be available due to AP hardware, but that doesn't mean they all be accessible for free, even if hardware is there.
                                Level 5 autonomy hardware - we've been promised autopilot hardware. Not sure about 8 cameras with appropriate computer being on every Model 3 for free. Like Elon said, upgrading self driving hardware will be a piece of cake. That also means upgrading computer to the full version.
                                again, mandatory for AP hardware, not sure about getting it without driving aid package.
                                I know they are mandatory for AP hardware, not sure will be available for free
                                 
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                                • mt.west.ev

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                                  I am excited about the M3 and all of it's features, design and performance.
                                  However, I hope the MS will always be a step ahead, more refined, more comfortable and luxerous.

                                  I drove a Prius for 5 years ..... great car.
                                  Then traded it on a Toyota Avalon - Hybrid two years ago. A better car. Same "family," just better.
                                  Larger, more comfortable, more luxurious.

                                  Why do I feel that way? For the survival of Tesla as an automobile company. There have been many start-up auto companies with great designs, excited backers, but failed for a myriad of reasons. I want Tesla to succeed.-
                                   

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