1. Model 3 is coming. Get your Model 3 Owners Club apparel today!


    Dismiss Notice

Keyless Entry with smartphones

Discussion in 'Tech Talk' started by Juergen, Sep 23, 2017.

More threads by Juergen
  1. Juergen

    Active Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2017
    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Gender:
    Male
    City & State/Province:
    Messstetten
    Country:
    Country
    After reading the keycard manual I have a bad feeling. The range is about 9m for the communication between car and phone. That’s a lot! Unfortunately there also devices on the market called Bluetooth Repeater. You can expand the range vom 10m class 2 to 100m class 1. If receive the “bad guy” the bluetooth signal from my phone, he can open the car and drive away. This is happened some BMW owners with there’s cars to.
    Have Tesla one build in technic behind to prevent this? I think it’s safer to open and close the car by app or keycard.

    Juergen
     
  2. SoFlaModel3

    Impatiently Waiting
    Moderator M3OC Supporting Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2017
    Messages:
    3,348
    Likes Received:
    1,585
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    City & State/Province:
    South Florida
    Tesla Owner:
    Reservation
    Country:
    Country
    #2 SoFlaModel3, Sep 23, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2017
    Converting to feet for us ignorant Americans that is 29’ 6”.

    I can’t imagine the car unlocking from that distance. Tesla must have a way to limit this...

    EDIT: after reading through the key manual some more I take back my earlier note. It is quite possible the phone being within range will be an issue. For that reason, the phone is not the "only key". If your car is kept outside and your phone is within range (without interference) that may be an issue. We'll have to see what happens in the real world. For instance if you open the app and lock the doors but the phone never leaves the bluetooth field do the doors stay locked? I would think so...
     
  3. green1

    Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2017
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Gender:
    Male
    City & State/Province:
    AZ
    Country:
    Country
    And one thing I'm worried about is reconnection. Right now, the way Bluetooth works (on my Android phone, at least), if I walk far away from my Bluetooth connected headphone, and I loose connection, when I come back within range, it doesn't automatically reconnect. I have to manually reconnect. Would the M3 work like this? I know Wi-Fi always reconnect when you come back within range, but Bluetooth doesn't. Unless if there's a new Bluetooth version I'm unaware of
     
  4. SoFlaModel3

    Impatiently Waiting
    Moderator M3OC Supporting Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2017
    Messages:
    3,348
    Likes Received:
    1,585
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    City & State/Province:
    South Florida
    Tesla Owner:
    Reservation
    Country:
    Country
    I think that’s just your phone/headphones. Probably that headphones went into a power save mode when there was no active connection for “x” time.

    The car will be actively searching for your phone.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  5. Kizzy

    Well-Known Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2016
    Messages:
    318
    Likes Received:
    130
    Trophy Points:
    43
    City & State/Province:
    California
    Tesla Owner:
    Reservation
    Country:
    Country
    Tesla did provide a solution for that. You can disable the passive entry (auto unlock/lock) when your phone transitions between being in range. Then, you have to manually lock or unlock the car through the app (or key fob with S and X).
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. Juergen

    Active Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2017
    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Gender:
    Male
    City & State/Province:
    Messstetten
    Country:
    Country
    Thanks! I ask for a technical solution. The waves need about 100ns for a two way transmission on 50ft. They can measure the time what the signal need like a ping on the computer. Is it outside the window was expected, the Tesla disconnect and let the door closed. Maybe this is a hidden feature already.
     
  7. JWardell

    Top-Contributor
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    May 9, 2016
    Messages:
    867
    Likes Received:
    638
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Gender:
    Male
    City & State/Province:
    Boston
    Tesla Owner:
    Reservation
    Country:
    Country
    It's a LOT more complex than that but nonetheless possible. Apple put a lot of effort into using both bluetooth and wifi to measure time of flight to determine where a device is in relationship to another, and use this when unlocking your computer when your watch is in front of it, also configuring devices like the appleTV from a very nearby phone. It's one of those things that will take a year or so of tweaking.
    Every other car I've had has a ton of bluetooth annoyances with disconnection, priority connection, connecting to a phone in the house instead of in the drivers seat, etc.
    The great thing about Teslas is they can and will continue to improve all the bluetooth features and performance, and your car just automatically updates with that new software. It boggles me why no other car manufacturer does this.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  8. arnis

    Top-Contributor
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2017
    Messages:
    481
    Likes Received:
    124
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Gender:
    Male
    City & State/Province:
    near Tallinn
    Country:
    Country
    #8 arnis, Sep 25, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2017
    Easy - have a timer that disables phone's Bluetooth for nighttime when we don't use our phones and re-enables before we leave.
    If I had to propose a fast solution I would not allow to pair if phone's gyro sensor detects phone is not moving.
    For example my phone will not ask for pattern again up to the point the phone has rested on a surface for around 5 seconds.
    Most of car thieves work during the nighttime when owner is asleep and vehicle is outdoors. If phone does not connect, can't extend signal.

    There are many ways to protect with new software. Key fobs on the other hand are bricks that get old and never update.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  9. ummgood

    Active Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2017
    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    48
    Trophy Points:
    18
    City & State/Province:
    Austin
    Country:
    Country
    The problem is you are assuming I want to shut off my bluetooth. If someone owns an apple watch they'll probably never want to shut it off.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. JWardell

    Top-Contributor
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    May 9, 2016
    Messages:
    867
    Likes Received:
    638
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Gender:
    Male
    City & State/Province:
    Boston
    Tesla Owner:
    Reservation
    Country:
    Country
    Agreed. I have 11 devices under my bluetooth list, including two smartwatches. I only turn off the bluetooth quickly when I want to reboot the bluetooth stack, which seems to fix a lot a problems with some BT things. I don't really understand why you would want to turn it off every night.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  11. Steam613

    Active Member
    M3OC Supporting Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2017
    Messages:
    46
    Likes Received:
    32
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Gender:
    Male
    City & State/Province:
    Lexington KY
    Tesla Owner:
    No
    Country:
    Country
    If this has been addressed I missed it. iPhone 6S owner. If I am talking on the phone will it still unlock the car on approach?
     
  12. SoFlaModel3

    Impatiently Waiting
    Moderator M3OC Supporting Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2017
    Messages:
    3,348
    Likes Received:
    1,585
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    City & State/Province:
    South Florida
    Tesla Owner:
    Reservation
    Country:
    Country
    Good to get a confirmation, but that shouldn’t be a problem at all in my opinion.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. AEDennis

    Top-Contributor
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2016
    Messages:
    721
    Likes Received:
    422
    Trophy Points:
    63
    City & State/Province:
    Southern California, Most of the time...
    Country:
    Country
    On a tangent, but related here... Considering that Tesla's implementation of Bluetooth on S and X (and Roadster) only allowed one device to be attached at a time, I wonder how this will be affected by the reliance of BT for unlocking the car...
     
  14. SoFlaModel3

    Impatiently Waiting
    Moderator M3OC Supporting Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2017
    Messages:
    3,348
    Likes Received:
    1,585
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    City & State/Province:
    South Florida
    Tesla Owner:
    Reservation
    Country:
    Country
    It will always be looking for the “key” which can be the secondary if the primary is not found.
     
  15. JWardell

    Top-Contributor
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    May 9, 2016
    Messages:
    867
    Likes Received:
    638
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Gender:
    Male
    City & State/Province:
    Boston
    Tesla Owner:
    Reservation
    Country:
    Country
    Remember the 3 has all new computer systems, and a major switch to intel, so there should be a good chance the Bluetooth is significantly more modern and able to cope with multiple devices.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Sandy

    M3OC Supporting Member
    M3OC Supporting Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2017
    Messages:
    307
    Likes Received:
    146
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Gender:
    Male
    City & State/Province:
    Cobourg, Ontario
    Country:
    Country
    As well the owners manual for the ‘key’ stated that the app must be open for the door lock/unlock function to work. As long as the app is open in the background while talking it should not be an issue.
     
  17. UncleT

    Active Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2017
    Messages:
    152
    Likes Received:
    75
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Gender:
    Male
    City & State/Province:
    DC
    Country:
    Country
    #17 UncleT, Oct 31, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2017
    On occasion I need to leave my phone in my car. After starting the car with the phone, is it possible to turn off your phone, leave it in the car and then use the keycard to lock and unlock? Thanks!
     
  18. Maevra

    Active Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2017
    Messages:
    183
    Likes Received:
    365
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Female
    City & State/Province:
    Bay Area
    Tesla Owner:
    Model 3
    Country:
    Country
    Kinda confused by the "starting your car with the phone" part UncleT, but assuming you mean "can I turn off my phone and leave it in the car and just use the key card to lock/unlock", then yes you can do this.
     
    • Informative Informative x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Runt8

    Active Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    May 26, 2017
    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Gender:
    Male
    City & State/Province:
    Parker, CO
    Country:
    Country
    Where does it say the app needs to be open?
     
  20. UncleT

    Active Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2017
    Messages:
    152
    Likes Received:
    75
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Gender:
    Male
    City & State/Province:
    DC
    Country:
    Country
    #20 UncleT, Oct 31, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2017
    Thanks. I just wanted to emphasize that I would want to start the trip using the phone to unlock and turn on the car to get to my destination (rather than using the keycard).
     
    • Funny Funny x 1

Share This Page

Model 3 Owners Club © 2017. All rights reserved.
Model 3 Owners Club (M3OC) is an enthusiast club and is not affiliated with Tesla Motors or the Tesla Motors Club Forum (TMC).
All Tesla logos are trademarks or registered trademarks of Tesla Motors.