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Looking for detailed electrical spec's etc.

Discussion in 'Charging and Infrastructure' started by Scuffers, Jun 9, 2017.

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  1. Scuffers

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    Hi, I'm new here (just put a deposit down on a 3).

    Been looking for detailed info/spec's for charging options, is there some spec sheets out there for this stuff?

    All I can find is conflicting posts on this and that, with Tesla's website being so high-level it's meaningless.

    As somebody that (along with other things) spec's out commercial power systems, UPS/HVAC etc, I'm looking for the detailed spec's etc.

    Can somebody point me anywhere?
     
  2. garsh

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    I actually thought Tesla's website had pretty good info. Were you looking at this page:
    https://www.tesla.com/support/home-charging-installation
     
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    • Scuffers

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      #3 Scuffers, Jun 9, 2017
      Last edited: Jun 9, 2017
      With respect, that tells me very little.
       
    • garsh

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      In that case, post your questions here and someone will be happy to answer them.
       
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      • Badback

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        If you are expecting anyone to write a commercial spec for an electrical outlet, you are going to be disappointed.
        Call an electrician to install a 50A 220V outlet of the type common in your country and compatible with the adapters that come with the car. Done.
        The electrician does not need a spec to do this so why are you asking for one?
        If you do not want to use the cord that comes with the car, buy the Tesla Wall Connector. Your electrician will be happy to install it instead.
         
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        • Scuffers

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          OK, here goes...

          So far as I can tell, the cars have a dual charger option?

          So, if I want to use this to it's full capacity, (2x11Kw?) does it need:

          A) 2 x 240V (ie, L1, L2 & N)
          B) 2 x 415V (ie. L1, L2 & L3)

          I see they offer this cable: RED Industrial Socket - However, that's only a 16A 3Phase thus limited to 11Kw

          is there not a 32A version for 22Kw?

          There is however, a 32A wall connector?

          What I am getting at here is a lot of places have std industrial 'Red' 32A 3 phase sockets, so making a cable that can utilise these would mean easy access to rapid charging without having to install something else just for this job (for somebody like me that travels around, having a 32A cable would be ideal, I'm not about to pay for everywhere I go to have a Tesla wall connector installed.

          I also read somewhere they had a 100A single phase option (although it made zero ref to what that actually was?) that could run at 22Kw?

          Thanks for your comments...
           
        • Badback

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          You did not mention which Tesla model you are referring to.
          The dual charger option has been replaced by a high capacity charger option. Don't know if this will be offered on the Model 3.
          There is only one charging port on the car AFAIK.
          The charging port is single phase in the US, no idea what you will get on yours. Ask Tesla or maybe other members can respond.
          Here in the USA, it is common to install a 50A outlet and charge at 40A. This will easily recharge the car overnight.
          When you are out and about, you can use whatever is available. Tesla Superchargers are DC fast chargers. There are other networks that offer CHAdeMO DC fast chargers and other standards. Look here for more information: https://www.plugshare.com/
          I see some high capacity stations in Corby Cube and Kettering.
           
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          • garsh

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            #8 garsh, Jun 9, 2017
            Last edited: Jun 9, 2017
            The S had this as an option for a while, but it was removed.
            The information on this page seems to imply that current Tesla vehicles (with the high amperage charger upgrade) can charge at a max rate of 17.3Kw from AC sources.
             
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            • ChargePoint

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              #9 ChargePoint, Jul 20, 2017
              Last edited: Jul 20, 2017
              @Scuffers we have some specs that we provide to electricians. Of course it is directly related to ChargePoint chargers, however, our chargers do work with Tesla models so you might still find this helpful for your research. If it's not exactly what you're looking for, DM me and we can try to help! We're not able to post links just yet, but here you go: chargepoint.com/files/home/home-electrician-tips.pdf
               
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              • 17.088 ^2

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                #10 17.088 ^2, Jul 29, 2017
                Last edited: Jul 30, 2017
                Excuse me, but it seems that people are overlooking something.
                Scuffers seems to be from the _U.K._.

                As I understand it,
                UK residents may be much more likely to have three-phase power available to them, than those of us in the U.S..
                Let's not be too U.S.-biased in our answers to him. He could have options that we US residents do NOT have.




                ---

                Now, having said that, let me give several answers and info that are FULL of caveats...

                As of this writing (late on July 29th, 2017), despite last night's Tesla event,
                it seems that Tesla has NOT yet (broadly) released information as to the Ampacity (capacity) of the on-board charger, not to be confused with a curb-side EVSE (Electric Vehicle Service Equipment).

                _IF_ previous practice (from the S & X) is to be assumed the same for the Model 3,
                THEN...
                The on-board charger is likely to have a 48 amp charger, with _MAYBE_ a 72 amp charger available as an option.


                The National Electrical Code (NEC), or NFPA-70 is used in several nations, but is most commonly used only in the United States.
                The NEC clearly states that devices that are intended to be left on at full power for 3 hours, must be treated as a "Continuous Load". That means the load must be multiplied by 125% in order to size its circuit's conductors and overload protection (circuit breakers/fuses). So... 48 Amps x 1.25 would be a 60 Amp circuit and a 72 Amp load would be a 90 Amp circuit. Guess what? 60 and 90 just so happen to be standard sized circuit breakers here in the U.S.. If anyone thinks those numbers were chosen by coincidence, I have a bridge to sell you.

                Assuming a household only has one Tesla,
                I suggest a 60 Amp 240 volt (single phase) circuit at the minimum,
                with up to a 90 Amp 240 volt (single phase) circuit as an option.

                BUT...
                If you already have or are planning to one day own more than one Tesla,
                _AND_ you are planning on having two or more HPWCs (Tesla's High Power Wall Connector) located at LESS than ~50 feet from one another, then I suggest you do not settle for anything less than one 90 Amp circuit AND that you or your electrician do a thorough reading of the HPWC's installation manual. Pay attention to the section(s) about sharing the same circuit between more than one HPWC, and the data/interlink cable.
                * https://shop.teslamotors.com/products/wall-connector-with-24-cable
                * https://www.tesla.com/sites/default...l_connector_installation_manual_80A_en_US.pdf


                17.022 ^2



                p.s. for Scuffers: Please note that your possible three-phase availability and/or voltage differences may make much of the above irrelevant or incomplete for your needs: "Caveat emptor".


                [Edited the continuous duty time to strictly three hours.]
                .
                 
              • John

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                The charge rates given in the press kit were:
                small battery = 240V @ 32A
                big battery = 240V @ 40A
                 
              • 17.088 ^2

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                Huh. I see it now, at URL: https://www.tesla.com/presskit

                That would suggest that a 40 or 50 Amp 240 volt single phase circuit would be a good enough for ONE HPWC.

                I still think that more Amps are better, in the event one can imagine a day when such a residence (or other location) might want to have more than one HPWC (again, at less than 50 feet from one another).


                17.088 ^2
                 
              • Scuffers

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                #13 Scuffers, Jul 30, 2017
                Last edited: Jul 30, 2017
                Thanks for noticing that I am NOT in the US.

                Here in the UK (and most of the EU) our Tesla's arrive with type 2 (IEC 62196) connectors, nothing like the US ones.

                Now, these can supply single or 3 phase, however, whilst the spec goes to 63A (per pin), almost all off the shelf options are limited to 32A, so if you want more than ~7.6Kw, you need to go 3 phase.

                (Houses here are usually supplied with 240V 100A single or 415V 100A 3 phase)

                Now, Yes, I could go out and by the Tesla HPWC, and that's fine for home (apart from the cost!), it;s not much use when out and about.
                Most of the places I go have standard 16/32/63A 5 pin 3 phase sockets, so having a cable that can plug into these would be great, however, all Tesla offer is the single phase 32A (Blue Plug) and 16A 3 phase (Red Plug), fortunately, aftermarket options exist for 32A 3 phase.

                Now, a std 32A 3 phase socket costs naff all (typically external weatherproof RCD equipped outlets are <£100, Vs. £400+ for the HPWC, and the std 3 phase outlets can be used for anything (lot's of unit's have them anyway in the same way your house has std wall sockets)

                Having spent (too much) time looking at this since my original post, it seems to me that Tesla could answer a lot of this by approx half a page of well written detail rather that the generic confusing page they have now (hell, even the Tesla support engineer I spoke to said it was mostly unhelpful and he spent way too much time covering this in phone calls!)

                Anyway, thanks for taking the time, my solution was to buy an aftermarket cable for 32A 3 phase, job done.

                PS. using this for a current Model X, you're limited to 24A 3 Phase - I assume this is the limit of the on-board charger?
                 

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