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Discussion in 'Tech Talk' started by Arvin, Apr 8, 2016.
and more discouraging news. http://electrek.co/2016/04/08/tesla-model-3-features-safety-autopilot-supercharger/
I'm not worried. Supercharger stations aren't widely available, so it's poor wording to suggest "Supercharging" is included when it will not actually be available to some buyers. That's a lawsuit waiting to happen. "Supercharger Capable" is far more sensible. As for 5-star safety, that's a government rating and they have no business promising that yet.
I've got a thread on this as well that I posted before finding this thread so apologies.....so this link is a cross post on that thread. Similar info. http://seekingalpha.com/article/3964113-tesla-model-3-demand-may-force-quality-downgrade Ski
I would take anything that comes out of Seeking Alpha site / app with a grain of salt. They are notoriously anti-Tesla - its the equivalent of getting all your political news from Fox.
You should take the time to read the comments on the Seekingalpha articles. Some people have really worthy insights and it's certainly not all anti-Tesla.
I don't know if this belongs here, or in the thread where we indicate the amount of options that we are choosing . . . . But it needs to be said. We won't be loosing as much as some tend to speculate. The price for some of the upgrades /add ons could be a lot less from what we see on the Model S offerings. Remember that volume and economies of scale come into play here. There is less area to paint; less to carpet, less volume of glass, even if it doesn't seem as such. When you buy sensors at S and X volume it costs a lot more than when you start buying at Model 3 volumes. This also goes for Panorama roof kits, motors, and everything else we will see. I'm more than sure that the Tesla buyers will be told to crack the whip and make vendors tighten up margins when it comes to these higher volume parts purchases. Also Remember, unlike when Tesla began, they now have a growing number of competitors. We see more and more EV concepts at the car shows each year. The Model 3 could cut into the meat and potatoes car category for lots of companies. Elon knows that he will see growing competition in this segment. We might see a lot more than just the Bolt on the Market before the Model 3 design studio opens up. Tesla should have this in mind when working on the pricing. I just hope that it remains À la cart / design your own instead of packaged bundles like the others do. I like the way that the design studio currently works for the Model S, and would want to see much of same from the Model 3 Design studio. It's part of the Tesla appeal to me. .
I do read the comments, they are usually more interesting than the articles themselves. Yes, seeking alpha does have an overall anti tesla tone. Some very well respected investors are anti tesla as well. With a PE that ranges in the 200-300s thats expected. Tesla is still in its infancy and its a pipe dream. Its a pipe dream i and millions more believe in.
Agree on options being lower cost. Apple is the competition, you need to make it so that Apple does not see the profit in the market to make it worthwhile. I am willing to live with packages if it gets me a car a sooner. From the https://model3tracker.info/ survey, most want the same things, autopilot, super charging, bigger battery and even AWD for 1/2 of the survey responders. Putting autopilot and Super charging as separate is ok since they are software updates. Having a package with AWD, glass roof and bigger battery could make 25-30% very happy.
Maybe in some far off future. But right now, the competition are the current manufacturers with cars in roughly the same price range being sold within the next few years.
My point was that If you make the Model 3 price agressive, you might be able to convince apple to give up trying to enter the market. They are rumored to be entering the market in 2018-2019 (1-2 years after Model 3). ICE cars are good benchmarks for what prices should be, but not a competitive threat for EV buyers. Bolt and Leaf may take some buyers who are dedicated to their brands, but they are not major competition for Model 3. Apple on the other hand may aim directly at Tesla, so may be real competition for the first time in Tesla's entire history.
I don't get the impression that Tesla is afraid of competition and they would likely welcome Apple getting vehicles out to the public.
If you are saying Tesla is very competitive, we are in full agreement! To me, Tesla loves to kill the competition! Agressive pricing is the best way to do it, that is why I think Tesla will match the pricing of the Audi A4 and BMW 3 series. Their pricing is so aggressive, Bolt and Leaf will have a very hard time matching performance, range or style. Apple can compete on style, it is unclear if Apple can compete on performance or range without ther own Gigafactory. What do you see as the best ways to compete against, Audi, BMW, Bolt, Leaf and Apple? I was impressed by both Goshen and Musk welcoming competition, I was saddened by Fiat and GM's managements' less enthusiastic mocking. You would think they would have learned not to underestimate Tesla by now.
My tea-leaves say: that Musk and crew are focusing on building a product that is compelling, and they are pushing costs as low as they can engineer (statement that SC as a package- not because they want it to be expensive, but because they can't figure out to make it cheaper). They hope to make a profit. I don't see them focusing on the price of competitors - only their own. They have yet to compare their product to anything using terms like price match. Now perhaps they can sell software, that only they can sell, to the captive audience at a price that would make other vendors envious. Maybe thats the cash cow. But Pinewold pricing seems to fit another companies model, not Tesla.
Firstly, the only author worth reading over at Seeking Alpha is Randy Carlson. Secondly, the media has been harping on this Supercharging thing way too much. I never, for one second, thought that Tesla would be offering "free Supercharging for life" on the Model 3, it's just does not make economical sense. They can't possibly include it for free on a base-model car, there's a cost associated with Supercharging. It seems many people have forgotten that it used to be an optional $2000 upgrade for the Model S 60. Tesla has since included it with every Model S 70 or higher but that doesn't mean they're not earmarking that proportional $2000 from each sale towards the network. It's not fair to Model S owners who've paid into the system, transparently or not, to keep footing the bill. Tesla is completely right in charging a fee for Model 3 owners to access the network. This is the "decoupling" that Elon mentioned. I do however expect the cost to be lower than what they used to charge for Model S on account of the mass volume of this car, along with the options offerings.
As to Tesla competition...I'm guilty as sin. I'm sold on a M3 and have added options to make this $35,000 car closer to $60,000. (cumon - you know what I mean - you too have fantasized about tweaking it to the max, using things not yet even in existence). Now this week comes the MS60 at $58,000. I can get my Tesla NOW at a price point less than my configured M3. So now I jump to the thing that earned the Legend, not some wanna-be that has yet to be built using an untested crew assembling parts on a new assembly line built from a factory that has not been built. Tesla has beat the competition by seducing me from M3 to MS. But - I want all those sweet options I selected on my M3 to exist on my MS. Now my $58,000 has ballooned to $75,000 (and counting!!) Now I'm looking at a MX - at just $5,000 more for falcon doors and SUV. Tesla has again up-sold me - competing with itself. [and they don't even have any salesmen- except folks on these forums] next up - pay for my MS, and keep my reservation for a M3 and end up a two-tesla family. What competition!!!!
[Aww- come on guys...cumon was an intentional soft pedal snark.]
Clearly the new MS60 is targeted at those holding a Model 3 reservation waiting for a cheaper car loaded with options. Now you can get a coveted Tesla instead of waiting if you're thinking of spending $60K+. Given the cost of options however it quickly climbs so the value proposition is still not as good as a Model 3 I think but they, they get to make some sales for those who don't want to wait. I'd consider jumping too except the base price up here is $83K before options and we have a $75K cap on incentives so it only qualifies for a $3K rebate, not the full potential $14K. Not to mention the 13% sales tax we have to pay on top. I think for Most Canadians the Model 3 is still the car to wait for.
Any product line with a donut hole is vulnerable. When someone walks into your store with 66K and wants a vehicle to match, the right answer is never, "Sorry, We purists do not plan to offer anything at that particular price in the foreseeable future." Remember what the instructor said in those sales classes? If you see any people in line panting and impatiently drooling, always offer to sell up. "Freshly baked jelly donuts, anyone? You're right! The X is so amazingly marvelous, and it's not that much more for someone like you. Just look at those doors..."
If the S60 could come in under the 75k and get the full rebate I would add my options on later and scoop up an S right now!