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Model 3 "2nd Gen" Mobile Connector 32A

Discussion in 'Charging and Infrastructure' started by EValuatED, Sep 1, 2017.

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  1. EValuatED

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    Just saw this tweet from M3OC and that the new Mobile Connector that will come with the Model 3 is 32A max? Not sure I'm happy with that... thoughts from the team?
     
  2. SoFlaModel3

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    To me this is no different than everyone getting hung up on battery size.

    The only thing that matters is that Tesla suggests a home charge rate of 37 miles of range per hour on a 240V outlet. I drive ~62 miles a day and my car will have a full charge in 1:40 each night. Nothing else to really worry about...
     
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    • EValuatED

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      OK. But more Amps means less Time -- which is why I installed a 14-50 in my garage -- to be able to charge at 40A. Of course I can still do that using another EVSE. But I like the option to charge fast when I want to (e.g., change of plans, work or personal).

      Also, do we know the 37 mph is for 32A? (And is the max for the onboard charger 40A or 48A?)

      Guess I'm more Qs than As today! o_O
       
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      • SoFlaModel3

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        Well the Tesla Presskit says charge at home with 240V outlet (40A), so how can the mobile connector be 32A now that we're talking about it....
         
      • EValuatED

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        Perhaps the thinking is you'll use a Supercharger or destination Tesla or J1772 for road trips, and the Mobile Connector is backup.

        I was wondering about the option of buying a Corded 14-50 Mobile connector vs. by passing my 14-50 and wiring in a Wall Connector -- especially if the onboard charger is 48A max.
         
      • SoFlaModel3

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        Now I'm lost ... if they're quoting a charge range at 40A and the Mobile Connection is what you plug into the 240V outlet, but only has 32A something has to give there...
         
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        • EValuatED

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          I'm now wondering if they're sort of separate statements. 37 mph @ 40A. 2nd gen Mobile Connector (presumably less expensive than the current UMC), 32A max.
           
        • SoFlaModel3

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          I don't think they would advertise a charge rate that can't be achieved with the equipment you receive with the car.

          They'd be more likely to say "base charge rate is 'x' " and "with upgraded UMC is 'x' "
           
        • EValuatED

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          I'd think so, too. But... what are we seeing?
           
        • SoFlaModel3

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          A possible typo in either place...
           
        • Truav8r

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          My guess, based on info we've gleaned from Trevor and a couple other sources, and a bit of intuition...

          - The UMC that comes with the STD battery car is set at 32A output.

          - The UMC that comes with the LR battery car is set at 40A output.

          - The cars themselves (STD and LR) have internal 240V chargers capable of accepting up to 48A.

          In other words, if you have a hardwired Wall Connector, or happen to have a UMC from a Model S/X, you should be able to push more amps into the M3 than by using its own UMC.

          The intuition part... if the internal chargers in the M3 versions really were limited to 32A and 40A, that sounds like extra complexity and SKUs to keep track of in manufacturing. None of which jives with the whole 'keep it simple and cost effective' mantra that Elon has been touting. Makes sense to have the same 48A internal charger fleet-wide and if you're going to limit charge rates, do it via the included UMCs (and gives another teaser reason for folks to choose the LR battery over the STD).
           
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          • KennethK

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            Looks like the UMC that comes with LR and STD is a 32 amp limited. The vehicles will only accept 40 and 32 amps respectively at 240V AC. Since the chargers are assembled internally with the battery pack, this should keep part number count down.

            So, the LR will have the capability to charge at 40A (9.6kW) but will be limited to 32A (7.6kW) if you use the included UMC with the model 3.
             
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            • SSonnentag

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              Standard battery car comes with a 32A charger. Long range battery comes with a 40A charger.

              PS I totally made this up just now.
               
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              • SoFlaModel3

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                To me that just doesn't make sense. They're advertising a charge rate that you can't actually achieve.

                Mind you I'm only arguing the point for fun. I'm comfortable with the home charge rate at 32A.

                I just don't see why they'd advertise a charge rate and not supply you with the parts necessary to achieve it.
                 
              • MelindaV

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                so in this pix 48A is clearly on the screen, and this was taken of the car on display at the hyperloop competition last week. in the other photos showing the car, there are no CW around - suppose it could have been plugged into a S/X UMC, as they had an X there as well, but you would think for a car on display at an event like this, they would keep it plugged into it's own equipment to eliminate our crazy speculation ;).
                 
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                • Bokonon

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                  #16 Bokonon, Sep 3, 2017
                  Last edited: Sep 3, 2017
                  Just looking at Tesla's own words -- namely, the launch-event press release and the listing for the second-generation UMC adapters -- and then referencing the picture that @MelindaV highlighted above, I'm in the "something doesn't add up" camp. The "facts" before us appear to be:
                  • Model 3 LR can charge at up to 37 miles/hour (@ 40A / 240V)
                  • Model 3 S can charge at up to 30 miles/hour (@ 32A / 240V)
                  • Included 2G UMC has a maximum output of 32A / 240V
                  • Model 3 (LR, at least) has a 48A on-board charger
                  The "home charging" rates specified in the press release strike me as awkwardly worded and ambiguous, but given that the numbers themselves have been out in the wild for a month now, I'd fully expect them to be correct. In other words, Tesla has had plenty of time to say, "Oops! Just kidding, the Model 3 LR can charge at up to 45 miles/hour @ 48A / 240V!" (Unless, of course, you believe this is another anti-sell conspiracy, but we'll put that notion aside...;))

                  Next, let's consider the 2G UMC being limited to 32 amps for NEMA 14-50 and 6-50, versus 40 amps for the first generation. The evidence for this claim is a footnote in the Shop Tesla page for the 2G UMC's NEMA adapters. Given that it's just a footnote on a tangentially-related item, is this information reliable? And why would the amperage have dropped from 1G to 2G anyway? My theory is that the new "pigtail adapter" design was intended to help the UMC plug into outdoor/weatherproof NEMA 14-50 receptacles without leaving the lid propped open (as is often the case with the bulkier 1G UMC 14-50 adapter), and in slimming the design, they needed to reduce the max current to achieve the desired factor of safety. (Bonus: it complies with Canada's electric code too!) So, yes... the 2G UMC is likely limited to 32A output.

                  Finally, let's look at the 48A on-board charger claim. Given that the base Model S comes with a 48A charger, and that we've seen "48A" as a maximum charging option in the UI, it seems reasonable to conclude that the Model 3 (LR) is also equipped with a 48A on-board charger. Of course, it's worth noting that, just because the charger itself can pull 48A continuous doesn't necessarily mean that the rest of the charging hardware can as well. (e.g., maybe the larger geometry of the 2170 cells creates a bottleneck with thermal management, which might explain the differences in max charging rates between the two pack sizes). But if there is a bottleneck elsewhere, then why does the charging UI show 48A as an option? Why not show 40A?

                  To me, the 48A charging setting in the UI seems to the puzzle piece with the least-best fit. I think it's possible that the "48A" you see in the Hyperloop picture is nothing more than an oversight that slipped under a project manager's nose. Perhaps Tesla originally intended for the Model 3 LR to be chargeable at 48A, and thus designed the UI to that spec, but later dialed it back to 40A in RC testing, and the car in the picture was running an outdated software version. Or maybe a key piece of information was simply lost in translation between the car's hardware specs and the UI design team, and it hadn't been corrected as of that picture. As much as I'd like to think that these types of missteps would never happen post-July 28th, they seem more likely to me than Tesla issuing an erroneous press release and leaving it uncorrected over an entire month. (The fact that the Model 3 is still undergoing what essentially amounts to internal beta testing might also have kept the standards around software updates relatively relaxed.)

                  So, in summary, my reconciliation of the "facts" in question are:
                  • Model 3 LR can charge at up to 37 miles/hour (@ 40A / 240V) via Wall Connector, or at 30 miles/hour (@32A) via 2G UMC
                  • Model 3 S can charge at up to 30 miles/hour (@ 32A / 240V) via Wall Connector and 2G UMC
                  • Included 2G UMC has a maximum output of 32A / 240V by design
                  • Model 3 (LR, at least) has a 48A on-board charger which is not fully utilized, and this reality is not yet reflected in the UI
                  Yes, I could be wrong... but until we receive additional clarity, this is how I'll think about this without letting my head hurt too much. :)
                   
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                  • Michael Russo

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                    Folks, I only now just read this entire conversation which I had avoided up to now for fear of the unknown. And I now know why... feeling a combination of sheer awe for how you folks can rationalize all this technical mumbo jumbo, with extreme humility at the shameful ignorance I still feel when I read all this.

                    Practically, in addition the reassuring thought that I still have 18 months or more before I really need to know... I conclude the following:
                    1. I want the LRB version (and not because I'll gain .5 sec from 0-60, @JBsC6 :D)
                    2. I will install a T≡SLA Wall Connector in my nice SW France garage with solar panels on the roof when the time comes...
                    I always say I'm a simple man, after all... ;)
                     
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                    • TrevP

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                      Let's not get all hung up on the press kit vs product info specs. Tesla just put up the press kit info to keep the wolves at bay until they're ready with actual proper specs.

                      Tesla has a disconnect with communications and product management so its no surprise to see discrepancies at this time.

                      As for the 48A on the screen it's not a mistake. I know someone else who saw the same thing on another car. In the end it doesn't matter much. The UMC will charge what it can and if you want higher then a wall connector I'm sure can deliver 48A
                       
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                      • Scuffers

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                        I bet as soon as the 3 is out and about to 'normal' customers, a high-power charger option will appear (much like the current S&X), and I would put good money on it being the same hardware just opened up with a SW change.

                        (being cynical, Tesla are making the 3 to a budget, so any opportunity to up the sale price with options will be used).
                         
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                        • EValuatED

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                          I recognizing being able to charge as rapidly as possible from home is a preference/need choice for all... So I generally agree, with your call to patience.

                          That said, the difference between 40A & 48A max from the M3's onboard charger is meaningful in time/mph. So will be good to know. And for some with offpeak or super offpeak electric rates the window can be as little as 4h. With a long commute or frequent trips, it can make a difference.

                          As is the luxury of being ready to roll when you want/need to if your EV is your primary (or only) vehicle and perhaps a money maker for some in the not so distant future?

                          For my part I'm awaiting the charging rate knowledge to know whether I might be done by buying a Corded 14-50 Mobile connector (as I planned) vs. bypassing the 14-50 I installed in my garage and doing more wiring to put in a Wall Connector (if the onboard charger is 48A max), and going to a 60a breaker.

                          Deal breaker? Not even close. Meaningful to me? Yep. Helpful for me to be able to recharge faster and head off or see my kids/grandkids or friends, or be ready for a work trip in the morning on short notice? Yep! And cool factor with faster home charging? Oh yeah! (Though I will vehemently defend that as pragmatic for my choice of EV-first. :D)
                           
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