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Model 3 charge rate spreadsheet

Discussion in 'Tech Talk' started by KarenRei, Oct 11, 2017.

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  1. KarenRei

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    #1 KarenRei, Oct 11, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017
    So, like a lot of people, I'd like to get some charge rate curves for the Model 3, to incorporate into trip planners and help figure out optimal charging strategies :) So far, there's only a few datapoints, but that's a start! And so that those datapoints don't get misplaced, here's a spreadsheet for us to manage them:

    Link


    If any of you can get more datapoints, by all means go ahead. Fill in all the data you can! There are invisible (white text) formulae for calculating mph on the range estimate if you manage to get available miles, target miles, and minutes remaining. The ideal "get" would be a video, from very low SoC to very high SoC, so we can fill in a ton of datapoints.

    I'll crosspost this on teslamotorsclub. :)

    ED: Now modified to include energy consumption when driving as well!
     
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    • AEDennis

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      Karen, ambient temperature would probably be a good gauge as well.
       
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      • KarenRei

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        Done. Keeping all units in imperial for now since all of the current owners are stateside, so it should simplify things :)
         
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        • KarenRei

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          #4 KarenRei, Oct 12, 2017
          Last edited: Oct 12, 2017
          Added in a tab for energy consumption when driving as well. Probably need to start hunting through old videos for some starter datapoints ;)

          ED: just from the *very* limited data we have now, it looks to charge on SCs at fairly similar powers to an S 60 - slow (from a power perspective) compared to other S's, but not when vehicle efficiency is taken into account. It looks like CHAdeMO will start to get current limited at somewhere around 2/3rds charge, so if you need, say, 45% charge on CHAdeMO, fastest would be to time it to go from around 30% to 75%, give or take.

          I think, from the EPA data and the pack layout that voltages will be similar to (maybe a touch less than) the new S/X models, not the old low-range Ss. If so it should get something like 170mph EPA range from CHAdeMO in this charge range, which would not be too shabby!

          That said, I hesitate to estimate supercharger performance between different SoCs because unlike CHAdeMO, you want to arrive at a SC at a low SoC, and we have minimal data at present about that.
           
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          • KarenRei

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            Ed: went back through some old videos to see if I could get energy-consumption-while driving data, but it appears that you don't have any sort of consumption meter when driving - at least from the vids I saw :( Is that not correct? If so that's a serious deficiency that I hope they remedy in later updates.
             
          • Model34mePlease

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            I believe there is nothing with numbers yet. Just a bar graph for use in on direction and regen in the other.
             
          • Troy

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            Hi. I quite like what Tesla is doing on the presskit page here. They mention Supercharge rate as rated miles added in 30 minutes. Of course, this would mean starting from 0%. The page says the Model 3 LR Supercharge rate is 170 rated miles in 30 minutes. However, they don't mention a comparable number for the Model S or X. But the video here shows the charge percentages for different Tesla packs at 30 minutes. Therefore it would be an excellent idea to compare the range added in 30 minutes. It's a shame that 1 EPA rated mile in one Tesla model is not the same as 1 EPA rated mile in another Tesla model. Therefore the numbers don't quite do justice to the Model 3.

            Another interesting idea would be to look at how many rated miles you can add overnight using a standard 110V home socket in the USA or 220V in Europe. The reason this is interesting is that home changing with a standard socket is normally too slow but because the Model 3 is more efficient, you will get more range per kWh. Therefore a standard socket should be sufficient for more people especially in Europe.
             
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            • KarenRei

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              The press kit figures are incorporated into the spreadsheet. If anything, they look pessimistic so far. And yes, of course I'll be publishing comparison curves once we have enough datapoints to make them :)
               
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              • Insaneoctane

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                The limited actual data points that we currently have points to the impression that Tesla's press kit data is sandbagged. Hmm, where have we seen this before?
                 
              • KarenRei

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                It could just be nonlinearity in the charge profile; we'll know more as we get more datapoints on the low end. But at least with the limited data we have so far, it does look like they're downplaying it.

                Amazing, amazing vehicle.
                 
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                • EValuatED

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                  • KarenRei

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                    Thanks for that - just assume I haven't see it if you encounter a datapoint unless you see it in the spreadsheet.

                    My reaction to this: já sæll!.... ;) That's bloody amazing. 102 kW at 45% SOC on a vehicle that has such low energy consumption.... just, wow!
                     
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                    • scaots

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                      Another data point from PTFI

                       
                    • KarenRei

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                      There's a consistent pattern now. It's not an anomaly, we've now seen datapoints from three separate vehicles pointing to it. Model 3 LR literally can do 100kW+ up to nearly 50% SOC.

                      That's insane.

                      While any data is good data, I think the supercharging curve is now coming into shape, at least at the low end (unless there's a surprise, such as the rate going over 102kW at very low SOCs). The high end is still rather sparse, we can only guess at it based on the estimates for how long it will take to complete. We have no CHAdeMO data yet. AC data is a bit sparse, but also pretty predictable. And we have no driving data.

                      But, the spreadsheet is at least starting to fill out! :)
                       
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                      • Michael Russo

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                        Karen, apologies for the dumb question... in your assessment, how would all this translate to SC charge time; in other words, how much time would the LRB take from 20 to 90%? How much longer would it take for the SRB?
                        Thanks for helping this (older as of Thursday... ;)) man! :)
                         
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                        • Troy

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                          #16 Troy, Oct 17, 2017 at 4:12 AM
                          Last edited: Oct 17, 2017 at 4:23 AM
                          Hi. Comparing Supercharge times in terms of kW rate or percentage doesn't do justice to the Model 3. To see the problem better, think about the Model S 100D and Model S P100D. These two cars have the same battery. Therefore they will reach the same percentage at the same time. However, 50% of 335 miles EPA rated range is not the same as 50% of 315 miles EPA rated range.

                          Therefore the Model S 100D will supercharge faster than the Model S P100D. The difference is even bigger between Model S and Model 3. Therefore comparing range added over time is an excellent idea. That's why I like Tesla's "X miles in 30 minutes" format. Another excellent idea would be to compare the time it takes to supercharge from 0 to 200 rated miles.

                          Bjorn used to compare range added over time. Here is an excellent video by Bjorn. Unfortunately, more recently he completely ruined his comparison videos and made them useless when he started comparing kW and % instead of range. I wish all Tesla cars had the exact same battery. This would have made it clearer that comparing range added over time makes more sense than comparing kW or percentage.
                           
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                          • JBsC6

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                            How long it takes to recharge?
                             
                          • KarenRei

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                            I'll make some "best guess" graphs this evening based on what we know, although we still have gaps.
                             
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                            • KarenRei

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                              Already well understood, commented on, and that's more to the point the reason I'm so excited about these numbers :)
                               
                            • KarenRei

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                              #20 KarenRei, Oct 17, 2017 at 12:50 PM
                              Last edited: Oct 17, 2017 at 6:08 PM
                              So I present, with some giant caveats.... Graphs!

                              ED: This graph has been superceded. Always use only the most recent graph in this thread, takk. :)

                              mynd14.jpg
                              The caveats:

                              * We have no data on the very bottom of the LR range, not the top
                              * We have few datapoints, period.
                              * We have no SR datapoints. I simply currrent limited LR at 46/31x sooner (the ratio of cells in the LR to the SR). This assumes that the cells themselves are the limiting factor, not cooling rates (which I presume would be the same capability on both vehicles).
                              * We have no CHAdeMO data. The voltage curve is a guess, although probably a reasonable one.
                              * I'm assuming Tesla uses a basis of 244 Wh/mi for the SR and LR (probably should have cut the SR by 2% now that I think about it) and 290 for the S 100 - the fastest charger in Tesla's current lineup. Other Teslas will be slower, some significantly.

                              But hey, it's something! Enjoy! :)
                               
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