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Model 3 OS still not ready for production?

Discussion in 'Software and Firmware' started by stebuu, Jun 18, 2018.

  1. stebuu

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    #1 stebuu, Jun 18, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2018
    Here's some issues I sent to feedback@tesla.com (where they will probably gather dust). Teel Deer: I love my car, but software-wise it is unacceptably buggy for a production vehicle. Curious to hear other people's thoughts and experiences. All issues experienced on 2018.21.9

    I took delivery of my model 3 on 6/7, and I have a lot of suggestions for useful software tweaks. However, I wanted to send y’all an email about the really bad stuff while it was fresh in my mind. Please keep in mind this is all stuff I have experienced in 10 days/500 miles.

    1) My car software has crashed at least twice upon entering the vehicle. This had rendered the car unusable for about 30 seconds on entering the car. When I get into my car, I want to be able to drive immediately, and I don’t think this is unreasonable.

    2) on some back roads in my hometown (chelmsford, MA) autopilot has steered over the line so part of the car is in the oncoming traffic lane. Watching the line mapping on the touchscreen, autopilot was very aware it was partially in the other lane. (edit: adding this note - I am not using autopilot to drive on backroads! I noticed this while doing some proverbial kicking the tires with no other cars anywhere near me)

    3) I have an iPhone X, which seems to be generally considered to be the best cell phone to use as a “Bluetooth key”. However, I have had issues entering my car at least twice requiring me to remotely unlock directly from the app. If you’re not going to utilize keyfobs, you have to have the cell phone as key be rock solid. It isn’t.

    4) it was a warm (85F) cloudless day today. That glass roof really radiates heat, even with remotely engaging the AC a few minutes before entering the car.

    I really love the car in concept, but it really does feel like I’m driving a car in late beta, not production.
     
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  2. Frank99

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    I agree with all your points, except #4. If you park the car in the sun for awhile, the glass will get hot and radiate into the car when you're driving. I haven't done any scientific tests, but it doesn't appear to me to be any worse than ICE vehicles parked in the sun - there's a lot of heat coming from the roof on those for a good deal of time after getting in and driving. My experience may be different from yours due to location, though. I've taken to turning on the climate control from the phone app when I'm walking away from the car - keeping the car nice and cool while I'm shopping/whatever, and avoiding any heat from the roof.

    If it's an annoyance to you, Tesla sells a sunshade for the roof in the Tesla Store.
     
  3. GDN

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    #3 GDN, Jun 18, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2018
    Hmmm - thinking you shouldn't have purchased.
    1 - Buggy software, known and it is being worked, changed and perfected. This car is sold with beta all over some parts of the software.
    2 - Autopilot is not meant for backroads, disclaimers to such and meant only for well traveled highways.
    3 - iPhone X here and it has worked perfectly every time. I understand many have complained about this issue. They provide a card, it works perfectly everytime from what I've heard, don't leave home without it.
    4 - It might get warm in your part of the country, but it flat out fry's here. Every day since having the car has been 95 or more. No issues with heat from the roof. We did tint the windows, but no issues at this point with the roof. The AC kicks butt so far.

    You really are driving a car that has some portions of it in beta. It continually changes and improves, and sometimes takes a step backwards.
     
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  4. garsh

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    Please don't use autopilot on back roads. It should only be used on highways. And to be clear, the autopilot feature is advertised as BETA. It is for testing only. Be sure to always treat it as such.
     
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  5. stebuu

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    Believe me, I was going under the speed limit and I made sure there was no oncoming traffic coming. It was purely an exercise in curiosity. Overall I've found that autopilot is a bit behind where I thought it would be (this is my first tesla) but I was still surprised to be in any situation where:

    1) I was allowed to engage autopilot
    2) Autopilot could not stay in its lane
    3) Autopilot kept control of the car and did not immediately signal for me to take over
     
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  6. goto10

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    1) I've never had the car be nonfunctional when the center console is rebooting. You can in fact reboot it *while driving*. You of course won't get your indicators or rear view camera display, but you can drive.

    2) They've been pretty explicit that autopilot is not currently optimized for "back roads". That said mine does well on well-marked surface streets but I disengage it whenever the markings or other circumstances get sketchy or when it misbehaves. It performs fantastically on freeways though even there it's just an assistance feature and it's up to you to be vigilant and disengage it when it's unable to handle the conditions.

    3) Fair enough. I've had a couple weird experiences too, but overall being able to use my phone as my key just by having it in my pocket far outweighs the inconvenience of that not working every once in a while.

    4) I have been surprised at how little heat seems to come through the glass but being glass there will be *some* transmission. You may want to consider getting the shade that's available to purchase from Tesla. I purchased one but only used it when I had to leave the car in an airport parking lot for a week and wanted to minimized cabin heating. While driving it's never been an issue. In any event, this is a design trade-off decision, not a defect per se.

    This is a feature, not a bug. Tesla works a lot more like a software company than a hardware company. They'll get the product out earlier, but there are going to keep iterating on it after release. The alternative is that the car releases later with a smaller, more fixed feature set that expands much more slowly. The infotainment system on my 2013 Toyota is indeed rock solid, but it is also pitifully feature bare and of course what I got when I bought the car is the full feature set that will ever be available.
     
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  7. Brokedoc

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    Using Model 3 AP for situations where it is clearly not optimized for like non-highway or international can be dangerous. Then, if the car is driving in a dangerous fashion like crossing lines, you must immediately take control of the car (as the display frequently warns you to be ready to do.

    Remember, YOU ARE ALWAYS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ACTIONS OF YOUR CAR! If you were to have the misfortune of getting into an accident and blaming AP, you will surely be on the front page for 5 seconds of glory but this is completely avoidable.
     
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  8. stebuu

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    I suspect that Massachusetts being Massachusetts it is technically illegal to drive here without a working speedometer. I could very well be wrong... a 30 second google didn't find anything. However, you also need the screen for other things like wipers and headlights (if you don't have them set to auto).

    Essentially, I bought a car that is months into production, and right now the primary key works less than 99.9% of the time and less than 99.9% of the time I get into the car and the control system for everything but driving and blinkers is immediately available. That's just not acceptable for a mass-market car.
     
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  9. SoFlaModel3

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    I haven't really had any concerns that you're describing and to add to what others have said, I only use autopilot where it's intended to be used.

    Your car does come with an access card if the phone is giving you fits, but I can tell you my iPhone X has worked 99.9999% of the time in 4+ months and 7,000+ miles.
     
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  10. stebuu

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    Here's the problems i have with "where its intended to be used".

    1) If it is not intended to be used on twisty side streets, I should not be able to engage it on twisty side streets.
    2) On the autopilot website, there is absolutely no mention that autopilot should be used only on highways.
    3) The autopilot in fact says "With the new Tesla Vision cameras, sensors and computing power, your Tesla will navigate tighter, more complex roads" next to a picture of a very twisty one lane each way road.

    I think the vast majority of day 1 Model 3 purchasers have realistic views of autopilot. I also think that when we get to the day 2+ reservation holders, it is not realistic to expect that most people would know to not use a five thousand dollar software package on roads that Tesla neither prevents you from utilizing nor actually tells you you shouldn't use it there.
     
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  11. GDN

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    This car requires and states that you must exercise control.

    Here is the question I've asked previously. I'm about 99% certain that your car before the Model 3 probably had cruise control, right? Did you use it on these same back streets? Just because it's there did you engage it at the posted speed limit? Just because it's there did you try to let it take over the acceleration for you on a curvy road? Just because it's there did you set it and then get up and get in to the back seat to make your self a sandwich on the drive in to work.

    NO - the answer is NO to all of them. And the same answer applies to the Tesla as well.

    I'll stop on this post here now that I've made my point and going any further could get me in trouble or banned and I'm better than that.
     
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  12. rxlawdude

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    Hmm. With each response to your OP, you become very defensive. "Beta?" Please. I've had the M3 for almost six months, and it's far from "beta."

    "It is not realistic to expect that most people would know to not use a five thousand dollar software package on roads that Tesla neither prevents you from utilizing nor actually tells you you shouldn't use it there."

    Here's where I think you sound like a troll (no offense). Tesla doesn't tell you not to drive into a concrete pylon, yet the majority of people don't do that. The law doesn't stop you from exceeding the speed limit, but people do that.

    People who ignore warnings are simply testing Darwin's theories.
     
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  13. SoFlaModel3

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    Given the pretense that you are responsible and must maintain control, if the car is unable to handle the road it’s on simply take control.

    The car can go 135 MPH, does that mean you can go 135 MPH or do you maintain control of the vehicle and only operate at speeds it can handle given the road conditions?

    I’m not sure where you’re going with this...
     
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  14. stebuu

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    I am honestly not trying to troll here. I am, however, quite amazed that the resounding response to "autopilot is not keeping the car in its lane on a side road" is "well, its in beta, you should know better than to use autopilot there. That's tribal wisdom!". One of the big problems there is that Model 3s are about to sell outside the tribe en masse.

    I am also amazed that people are of the opinion that the primary key and touchscreen not working on a regular basis is acceptable for a car. However, while I am certainly surprised by the responses, i did make this post looking for responses, and I do appreciate people taking the time to respond.
     
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  15. garsh

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    It does sound like Tesla needs to make this information easier to find. I thought I remembered reading this somewhere, but my attempts just now to find a copy of the Autopilot Agreement came up empty.
     
  16. Dogwhistle

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    Gotta admit, I’m with @stebuu regarding the Autopilot. I really think that if the system isn’t meant to be used in a certain area, then it should not be able to engage in that area. If there is a road with turns or features that Autopilot can’t handle, then it should disengage with a “take over immediately” warning before the turn or situation. These simple things will prevent a bunch more bad-news stories from occurring as the deliveries go further down the list to the less understanding and enthusiastic. If Tesla gets a feature up to par where it can be used reliably in a situation, then it should be enabled. I’m a huge fan, hate to see the company get painted into an undesirable corner.
     
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  17. stebuu

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    Using the “my mom” test, there is no way my mom would look at this picture from the autopilot page and think “autopilot is not meant for single lane twisty roads”.

    https://goo.gl/images/r1a4Np
     
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  18. garsh

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    [​IMG]
    This is the screen you must agree to in order to activate autosteer.

    Tesla should make this same text available on their website. This is the only place I can find where Tesla says that it is designed for roads with a "center divider".
     
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  19. iluvmacs

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    OK, so that percentage means you've unlocked your door at least 1,000,000 times in 4 months/7K miles... which comes out to once every 10.5 seconds, or on average every 37 feet that you drive. I think you need a new hobby :D.
     
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  20. goto10

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    One of the differentiating features of autopilot vs other self driving technologies is that it is designed to be a general purpose feature that operates the same way you and I do - by observing the conditions around us and responding appropriately. It doesn't know it can't handle a given stretch of road until you try to drive down that stretch of road and even then it is often going to do a "best try" at handling what it's given with the understanding that you are paying attention to keep it from doing something stupid. Because it relies largely on sight even different lighting conditions can mean the difference between a road it can handle and a road it cannot. Even traffic conditions can make a big difference.

    There is a frontage road on my daily commute that is not a good candidate for Autopilot. It has irregular markings, frequent construction, and often has vehicles parked very close to the driving lane. That said it would be frustrating to have the street blacklisted for Autopilot because occasionally this road becomes a detour for the freeway when there is an accident. It turns into the worst stop & go traffic and while autopilot doesn't navigate this road at speed it's perfect for getting through this occasional heavy congestion.

    This is not supposed to be fully autonomous driving. On the spectrum of "cruise control" to "fully self driving" it is *much* closer to cruise control. No one claims cruise control should be automatically disabled on roads where it would be unsafe. You are expected to use some discretion as the driver. Recognize that it's a beta feature, try it out in different circumstances, and get a sense for its limits so you can use the feature without frustration or anxiety.
     
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