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Precise frontal cross sectional area?

Discussion in 'Design' started by Bryan Baker, May 6, 2017.

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  1. Bryan Baker

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    I'm playing with the equation for aerodynamics for the S, X, and 3.

    The "everything we know about M3" post has a reliable listing of the exterior dimensions. However the frontal cross sectional area is less than a simple length times height calculation.

    I've seen a few rough guesstimates of what the frontal area may be in these threads, but certainly it the precise frontal area must be known.

    Anyone have a source? Or a more rigorous estimation (e.g., counting pixels on side-by-side pics of the MS and M3?)
     
  2. garsh

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    We know HxW for the S and the 3. Figure out the percentage difference.
    Then take the frontal area of the S and multiply by that percentage.
    That will probably be a close-enough estimate.
     
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    • arnis

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      Actually it is pretty hard to calculate. Even with absolute 3D model, +/- 1...5% error in area and Cd is expected.
      Hardest part is the wheels and wheel wells. And this is why Cd is measured rather than calculated.
      First of all, tires have a frontal area. Some of it has direct air flow, some is turbulence.
      There is another "frontal layer" at the rear tire frontal sides. And also some turbulence in the wells.
      And another layer inside 4 rims. Plus it is rotating. Turbine wheels suck air to make it better.
      And Model 3 frontal bumper has some inlets that make air flow more laminar right above the tire (outer side).
      And we still don't know, will M3 have main air scoop with shutters or not. Most likely not.
      I can't imagine how is it possible to calculate Cd for that area if it is opened.
       
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      • Steve C

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        black-tesla-model-s.jpg

        I came across this picture of a Model S. You can see that without the moustache it would look like the Model 3's nose.

        I believe, this is the nose we will receive. THIS I am super happy with.

        This is my belief. :cool:

        Who is with me on this?? Who wants to bet a pint on it?
         
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        • Steve C

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          Really nice rims as well. It is a really a beautiful car.
           
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          • TrevP

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            I will take you up on that Steve. Model 3 will look just like it does now, no moustache. Release candidates prove it but you're living in denial and that's a river in Egypt :D
             
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            • garsh

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              The *only* reason Tesla left a mustache on the revised S is because the cutline for the frunk lid ends at the front edge of the car, and they didn't want to redesign the lid. The 3 was designed to not have this issue, so it can have a clean snout.
               
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              • TrevP

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                Nailed it!
                 
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                • AZ Desert Driver

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                  I'm not sure that Garsh is right that the "only reason" is being lazy lid designers. I see a logo reason also. The S refresh established a look, and the X carried on that look - it seems to be a logo now, and would make marketing sense to add the mustache to the 3 also.
                  Trev- your logo does not have a mustache, and Garsh has expressed his negative opinion on same, but perhaps marketing will dominate over personal opinion.
                   
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                  • garsh

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                    Not lazy. Efficient. :)
                    The 3 already has a logo. It's right there on the frunk lid. No mustache required.
                    [​IMG]
                     
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                    • Steve C

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                      Sounds like @garsh is putting a pint on it as well! Well done.

                      I appreciate how everyone has quite a strong opinion on the nose and what will actually come with the car. I love the passion!

                      That picture of the 3 really shows my point actually. If I had the time and energy, I would photo-shop it on.... anyone? anyone?
                       
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                      • AZ Desert Driver

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                        All will be known circa June 6. Mustache or Tea top, pre refresh look? Just three more weeks!!
                         
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                        • Dan Detweiler

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                          I am sure at this point that a mustache is not in the picture for Model 3, but I have to admit I would have liked to see that brand feature continue with the 3 as well. I am totally fine with it the way it is but just thought that it would tie all the cars together into an unmistakable family resemblance.

                          Dan
                           
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                          • Michael Russo

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                            I am totally with you, Dan. Quite frankly, I am surprised we're still discussing this at this point after all these 'clean-shaven' release candidates for several weeks... :D

                            I could have lived with the S and X front, yet I prefer it the way it is... and my wife definitely does not care for facial hair! :p
                             
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                            • JBsC6

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                              Looks good in both pictures but I prefer the cleanest least adorned version. I'm not a big fan of badges and grilles,

                              I prefer the sleek clean design be the statement of the vehicle.

                              Just my opinion but the photos looked good both ways..

                              Thanks for the fine efforts and posting.
                               
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                              • JBsC6

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                                Ps..the problem with that stunning black frank lid is in the real world that trunk up front with one tap is in harms way..

                                Jerk offs parallel parking will be costing that cars owner a lot of money when he returns to the car...

                                The reality of life does require a plastic cover bumper for a few inches from the leading edge unless your valet parking all the time and even then...the nose needs that protection flexible zone...

                                The painted front covers that have some flex are expensive to repair and replace but replacing the entire hood would be even more expensive...

                                Just food for thought...

                                I dig those wheels ..and I think I see them on corvettes quite often ..a set of four in 19/20 s for corvettes is like 1400 dollars I believe...of course I'm not sure about offsets etc...but they do look good.
                                 
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                                • Bryan Baker

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                                  #17 Bryan Baker, May 21, 2017
                                  Last edited: May 21, 2017
                                  I don't think that works. For example, here's a table comparing the width and length of the MS w/ the M3, and calculating the percent difference in each. Adds to less than a 5% improvement, a far cry from 20% (which referred to volume, not frontal area).
                                   
                                • Safe Daddy Driver

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                                  [​IMG]
                                  I don't believe that the 3 will come with a mustache, at least not the same type as in the S/X because of the frunk's curved corners. However, could the RCs be hiding the real nose like they did for the pre-reveal Model X pictured above?
                                   
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                                  • Michael Russo

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                                    IMHO, highly unlikely. It was pretty clear here something was hidden, not so for the Model ≡ RCs...
                                     
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                                    • Safe Daddy Driver

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                                      Agreed. Unlike the Model 3 RCs, that Model X nose looks like a patch job.
                                       
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