(Speculation) How Has Tesla Optimized P3 Track Performance?

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Brokedoc

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#1
With the teased specs on the P3 (is this what we’re gonna call it?), we can only assume that Tesla has solved a few major technical hurdles.

Firstly, a widely publicized trip to the track with a First Production unit resulted in completely cooked brakes. So P3 will have upgraded brakes.

I wonder if there will be a “Track” regen setting for max regen to allow for more one pedal use and further reducing brake use while regen more energy.

Secondly, the revelation that the front motor is induction was a big surprise to many. In the S/X, the induction motors are great for max throttle up to 1/4 mi sprints but overheat quickly after that and become useless. The P3 has been spotted at tracks for testing so presumably they found a solution.

How has Tesla fixed this? An algorithm to split power between the motors to prevent overheating of the induction motor? Active cooling in the P3 induction motor that the standard D may not have? New design of the induction motor?

For those that frequent the track it looks like the P3 will be your dream car. If you can afford it...
 

Mad Hungarian

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#2
With the teased specs on the P3 (is this what we’re gonna call it?), we can only assume that Tesla has solved a few major technical hurdles.

Firstly, a widely publicized trip to the track with a First Production unit resulted in completely cooked brakes. So P3 will have upgraded brakes.

I wonder if there will be a “Track” regen setting for max regen to allow for more one pedal use and further reducing brake use while regen more energy.

Secondly, the revelation that the front motor is induction was a big surprise to many. In the S/X, the induction motors are great for max throttle up to 1/4 mi sprints but overheat quickly after that and become useless. The P3 has been spotted at tracks for testing so presumably they found a solution.

How has Tesla fixed this? An algorithm to split power between the motors to prevent overheating of the induction motor? Active cooling in the P3 induction motor that the standard D may not have? New design of the induction motor?

For those that frequent the track it looks like the P3 will be your dream car. If you can afford it...
Outstanding questions, and very much the same ones I have.
Since we know the motors used are the same as a regular Dual (beyond the "top sigma pick-of-the-litter" and "extra burn-in time" stuff), the only additional changes we know of are 20" staggered wheel package, silicon-carbide inverter, larger front rotors (with presumably stouter pads) and a carbon spoiler. That in my mind still doesn't total up to $24K over a similarly equipped Dual. So I'd love to know what all else is going on in there.
Now there may of course be lots of tuning changes to things like anti-roll bar, spring and shock rates, but those items wouldn't dramatically change the costs unless they were fundamentally different in type, i.e. active damping or roll control, etc., which I'm sure we would have heard about.
What is the secret "P" sauce?
Inquiring minds need to know.
 

garsh

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#4
The 20" wheels may not be staggered. The 20" set sold by Tesla currently is non-staggered.
 

Mad Hungarian

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#5
The 20" wheels may not be staggered. The 20" set sold by Tesla currently is non-staggered.
True, but we have seen examples of the 20x10.0 rears floating around for sale, and if this car really is going to pull off 0-60 in 3.5 or less its going to need some serious traction back there.
 

DNR

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#7
Are we sure it has bigger brakes? Elon tweeted that they were not planning on having them painted red due to complexity. If they were a different part how would that add complexity?
I think it's probably exactly the same car as the AWD except for the 20" wheels, binned motor, and spoiler. And the spoiler is being installed at the delivery center.
3.5 0-60 doesn't even need a different rear motor. You only need 46% more power to go from 5.1s to 3.5s. All that power could come from the front motor.
 

Petra

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#8
Are we sure it has bigger brakes? Elon tweeted that they were not planning on having them painted red due to complexity. If they were a different part how would that add complexity?
I think it's probably exactly the same car as the AWD except for the 20" wheels, binned motor, and spoiler. And the spoiler is being installed at the delivery center.
3.5 0-60 doesn't even need a different rear motor. You only need 46% more power to go from 5.1s to 3.5s. All that power could come from the front motor.
That's just it: we don't actually know. People are speculating because of the claims that Elon made in comparing the performance Model 3 to the BMW M3 and because of some test cars that were spotted (which we don't know the story behind). What concerns me is that we don't have all of the details about this car, yet Tesla is starting to allow people to configure the car and commit to purchase without necessarily knowing what they're getting for $78k+.
 

DNR

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#9
That's just it: we don't actually know. People are speculating because of the claims that Elon made in comparing the performance Model 3 to the BMW M3 and because of some test cars that were spotted (which we don't know the story behind). What concerns me is that we don't have all of the details about this car, yet Tesla is starting to allow people to configure the car and commit to purchase without necessarily knowing what they're getting for $78k+.
Yeah people expecting a competitor to the BMW M3 are probably going to be disappointed. It's going to be like the P100D, just a power upgrade. Most people are fine with that. The only problem is that Elon set Tesla up a for major embarrassment when reviewers actually compare it to a BMW M3 at the track.
 

Brokedoc

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#10
Yeah people expecting a competitor to the BMW M3 are probably going to be disappointed. It's going to be like the P100D, just a power upgrade. Most people are fine with that. The only problem is that Elon set Tesla up a for major embarrassment when reviewers actually compare it to a BMW M3 at the track.
I actually think this car will be the ultimate track car. Tesla has already track tested prototypes and I'm sure Elon wouldn't promote track performance if it wasn't true.

Based on current first production variety performance, this will only be better. I want to see any follow up track sessions from the guy who did Laguna Seca after he replaced his brakes.

I also want to see Tesla come out with a TRACK setting for regen as that would be a complete game changer and really set the P3 apart from other track cars.
 

DNR

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#11
I actually think this car will be the ultimate track car. Tesla has already track tested prototypes and I'm sure Elon wouldn't promote track performance if it wasn't true.

Based on current first production variety performance, this will only be better. I want to see any follow up track sessions from the guy who did Laguna Seca after he replaced his brakes.

I also want to see Tesla come out with a TRACK setting for regen as that would be a complete game changer and really set the P3 apart from other track cars.
Why haven't they announced any of the features needed to make it an ultimate track car then? LSD, carbon ceramic brakes, upgraded suspension, wider tires (front and back). It just seems very unlikely that they would invest money in all that and then not tell anyone when they're reserving the car.
Track level regen isn't possible with the battery tech in the Model 3. Full braking from 100mph would require 1MW+ of regen! The motors aren't even close to being able to handle that, let alone the batteries. It would be incredible to be able to capture all that energy. It will interesting to see what they manage to do on the new Roadster.
 

Brokedoc

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#12
Why haven't they announced any of the features needed to make it an ultimate track car then? LSD, carbon ceramic brakes, upgraded suspension, wider tires (front and back). It just seems very unlikely that they would invest money in all that and then not tell anyone when they're reserving the car.
Track level regen isn't possible with the battery tech in the Model 3. Full braking from 100mph would require 1MW+ of regen! The motors aren't even close to being able to handle that, let alone the batteries. It would be incredible to be able to capture all that energy. It will interesting to see what they manage to do on the new Roadster.
You're absolutely right about the track upgrades. Let me rephrase what I think the P3 will be because there is no track car sold stock from a major manufacturer. The stock P3 will be an amazing performance car and do very well on the track for the leisure driver. For die hard track racers, the P3 will be customizable to meet your description of the ultimate track monster.
 

oripaamoni

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#13
You're absolutely right about the track upgrades. Let me rephrase what I think the P3 will be because there is no track car sold stock from a major manufacturer. The stock P3 will be an amazing performance car and do very well on the track for the leisure driver. For die hard track racers, the P3 will be customizable to meet your description of the ultimate track monster.
what about the gt2 rs/ gt3 rs?
 

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#14
LSD, carbon ceramic brakes, upgraded suspension, wider tires (front and back).
You're absolutely right about the track upgrades. Let me rephrase what I think the P3 will be because there is no track car sold stock from a major manufacturer. The stock P3 will be an amazing performance car and do very well on the track for the leisure driver. For die hard track racers, the P3 will be customizable to meet your description of the ultimate track monster.
All those are features on the BMW M3 and the Alfa Romeo Giulia QF. The ceramic brakes are an option on both but they still have monster brakes even without them.
 

garsh

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#15
True, but we have seen examples of the 20x10.0 rears floating around for sale, and if this car really is going to pull off 0-60 in 3.5 or less its going to need some serious traction back there.


Are we sure it has bigger brakes?
No, we don't know for sure.
Elon tweeted that they were not planning on having them painted red due to complexity
No, he didn't. He didn't respond to that part - just a general response about manufacturing complexity.
Yeah people expecting a competitor to the BMW M3 are probably going to be disappointed. It's going to be like the P100D, just a power upgrade.
The main thing preventing the Model S from being a decent track car (besides size & weight) is that the motors overheat. I'm willing to bet that Elon made it a design goal that the Model 3 motors will not overheat when driven hard. We already know that all of the heavy components (battery and BOTH motors) are between the front and rear axles, which is going to give you exceptional turning dynamics. At that point, adding beefy brakes and tires is easy. This thing is going to be a track monster.