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Successfully Charged at Sea World San Diego

Discussion in 'Charging and Infrastructure' started by SSonnentag, Sep 18, 2017.

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  1. SSonnentag

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    Successfully charged my Volt. Two of the four stations were down. When I returned to my car in the afternoon, the vehicle parked at the second functional station wasn't even plugged in. What's up with that? You can't complain about people ICE'ing EV charging spots if EV's are going to essentially do the same thing.
     
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    • garsh

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      This is why "destination charging" is merely a stop-gap solution to EVs having short range. It will ultimately fail.

      Ideally, you'd have a charger at every parking spot. But that's expensive.

      Ideally, you'd have plenty of parking available. But sometimes the charging station is in a desirable location. Sometimes, the lot gets filled and those spaces are all that's left. When this happens, it invites people to park there. Especially when there's no enforcement of using the space for its intended purpose.

      When we first added charging spots in our parking garage at work, several Prius owners thought that their cars counted as "electric vehicles" and would park there. So some of it is a lack of communication and understanding.

      Then you get into the somewhat gray areas. What if a Volt owner parks there, and their car finishes charging in two hours, but they remain parked there for eight hours. Should they have to move to make room for someone else? That's a pain. What if the charging station isn't working right when I park there (just happened to me this morning). So I leave my car parked there unplugged. Is that wrong?

      Destination charging works at hotels and work locations to some degree, but is a royal pain just about anywhere else.
       
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      • MelindaV

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        you mean like this?
        [​IMG]
         
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        • FunkyJunk

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          Yes. If you're not actively charging, you should move.

          Yes. If you're not actively charging, you should move.
           
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          • JWardell

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            I've raised the issue elsewhere, and especially to Chargepoint. Penalty prices must be enacted in most chargers to start charging a higher rate once charging is complete to encourage owners to move their car out of the charging space so the next person can use it. This should be the norm, exceptions to parking lots that truly have way more chargers than demand.
            We have several chargers here at work, they are always occupied, but difference cars every few hours.
            And how do you manage a plug-in hyrbrid who is taking up a spot from a battery electric that could be stranded if they can't charge?
            We will never get to the point where chargers are available at every public parking spot. But commercial networks like Chargepoint do have the ability to raise fees after charging to limit the issue.
             
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            • BigBri

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              I do my best to get out of the way as soon as my car is done as I want more EVs on the road. If we're fighting for charging then people will resist. Idle fees seems like a good idea for now until there are a bunch of chargers at most garages.
               
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              • Badback

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                This brings up an interesting point. What if you are charging at work.
                How will your employer feel about you taking time away from work to move your car?
                What if there is no place to move your car to?
                I think a better solution is to make the charging spaces in parking lots or structures available for rent so that you can keep your car there with no complaints.
                 
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                • garsh

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                  Not an unreasonable position. But you've now made EV-ownership downright inconvenient when compared to owning a combustion vehicle.

                  If I'm at a ball game, or a show, or any type of event, I'm now expected to leave in the middle in order to move my car, and have the hassle of finding yet another parking space for it. If I'm at work, I now have to interrupt my work day to move my car.

                  Such policies will slow down the rate of adoption by the public at large. People don't like dealing with that sort of inconvenience.
                   
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                  • garsh

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                    I have a friend who works at the University of Pittsburgh. They have a few EV charging spots in their employee-only parking garage. They've solved this issue by assigning each of those parking spaces to a specific employee who owns an EV. Only that employee is allowed to park there. And they don't have to move their car when it's done charging.
                     
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                    • JWardell

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                      It's really no different than the jerkfaces who leave their ICE cars at the pump while they go inside to shop, get coffee, some powerball tickets, and play all their scratchoffs while a line of cars are waiting for them.
                       
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                      • FunkyJunk

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                        I think you're using edge cases to try and prove a generality. EV owners don't need to charge *everywhere* they go, especially at a sporting event. Rules for work day charging are up to the lot/business owner. It doesn't take long to go down to your parking area at work to move your car - 10 minutes? You'd probably spend longer talking to coworkers at the coffee machine.
                         
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                        • Badback

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                          I have a permanently assigned EV parking and charging spot and never have to move for anyone.

                          It's in my garage.:):):):):)
                           
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                          • garsh

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                            It's not really an edge case. The OP mentioned charging at Sea World. Take that as an example. Should he be required to leave the park (temporarily) after two hours to move his Volt to a different parking space? Sorry kids, daddy has to move the car.
                            The point is the same. These sorts of destination charging rules impart an additional inconvenience to EV ownership. I'm not saying that they're bad. It's a scarce resource, so some rules need to be in place. But this is why I think that destination charging isn't going to last in the long term. Owners of short-range EVs (like myself) are learning that this really is a pain. Yes, 10 minutes, every day. An hour per week just to move the damn car around. My prediction is that EVs will all eventually get to the point of having long range so that destination charging is limited to some workplaces and hotels.
                             
                          • Michael Russo

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                            Consultants call this change management... :D
                             
                          • JWardell

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                            I think you mean, "Sorry, kids, daddy has to move the car and get a beer."
                             
                          • Brokedoc

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                            Really, it may need to get to the point like handicapped parking spots. If ICE cars are ticketed for parking in EV charging spots, they won't park there.

                            Additionally, if an EV is parked in a charge spot and not charging, it should also be ticketed. Just as a car with a handicap permit is driven by a family member, they can't park in a handicap spot if the handicap person isn't with them....
                             
                          • MelindaV

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                            the neighborhood I work in fills up by 9am. if you have to leave in the middle of the day, and come back at 2 or 3pm, you are screwed. If you had to move your car to another space, it would be the same.

                            it is already like that here. You will be ticketed in Oregon & Washington if parked and not actively charging in an EV charging space (or at least could be ticketed).
                             
                          • garsh

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                            Likewise, if I (as a person not yet convinced to drive an EV) see that people with EVs are getting ticketed for parking in EV parking spaces too long, I may very well decide that an EV is not worth the hassle.

                            I'm not arguing that enforcement is wrong. I'm arguing that such enforcement makes driving an EV less desirable.
                             
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                            • Brokedoc

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                              In an ideal world, everyone would try to do the right thing and be considerate to others so that tickets aren't necessary. With some areas like Long Island where chargers are already not enough, we need those laws like in Oregon or Washington to be able to plug in and continue our trip. If an EV is parked in an EV spot with no charger, there is no urgency for them to move but a charging spot is a limited resource that needs to be shared when it's prime function is no longer being utilized.
                               
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                              • Model34mePlease

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                                To me, the question is can the rate of charging increase to the point where the time at the 'pump' is similar to a gas station. In that case, it is reasonable to just stand there while your car charges and then move it to another spot. When Tesla specifies charge times of, say, 170 miles in 30 minutes, we are within about a factor of 3 of that transition, where 10 minutes standing at your car while you 'fill up' is thought reasonable by the general public.
                                 
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