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Supercharger credit program details are finally out

Discussion in 'Charging and Infrastructure' started by TrevP, Jan 12, 2017.

?

Is the new pay per use system fair?

  1. Yes

    38 vote(s)
    95.0%
  2. No

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. I would prefer to have free for life for x$

    2 vote(s)
    5.0%
  4. I won't use Superchargers much

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
More threads by TrevP
  1. TrevP

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    #1 TrevP, Jan 12, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2017
    Details on the new Supercharger credit program are out.

    Here's the link (pick your location at the bottom to see pricing in your region).

    https://www.tesla.com/en_CA/support/supercharging?redirect=no

    I will have something to say in a video soon and Ken and I will discuss it on the next show due out next week.

    What do you all think?

    Below are additional program details which apply to Model S and X ordered after January 15, 2017.

    • 400 kWh (~1,000 miles) of Supercharger credits are awarded annually.
    • For usage above the complimentary annual credits provided, a small fee applies.
    • In North America, pricing is fixed within each state or province. Internationally, pricing is fixed within each country. All prices include taxes and fees.
    • Where possible, owners are billed per kWh (kilowatt-hour), which is the most fair and simple method. In other areas, we bill for the service per minute.
    • When billing per minute, there are two tiers to account for changes in charging speeds, called “tier 1” and “tier 2”.
      • Tier 1 applies while cars are charging at or below 60 kW and tier 2 applies while cars are charging above 60 kW. Tier 1 is half the cost of tier 2.
      • Tier 1 also applies anytime your vehicle is sharing Supercharger power with another car.
    • Supercharger pricing information may be viewed on the 17” touchscreen and is summarized below.
    Supercharging is simple and convenient—just plug in and charge up. Supercharging history is automatically populated in your website account showing the credits used or, if applicable, the amount billed. Tesla is committed to ensuring that Supercharger will never be a profit center.

    Region per minute for tier 1 per minute for tier 2
    Alberta $0.12 $0.24
    British Columbia $0.14 $0.28
    Ontario $0.13 $0.26
    Quebec $0.13 $0.26
    Nova Scotia $0.14 0.28
     
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    • KennethK

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      Exactly 60kW is 1 kWh per minute. So, for Michigan, if they charge $ .16/ minute that is a fair price for electricity. And Tier 1 is $.08/ minute. Guess it all averages out of the sale by time rather that kWh.
       
    • TrevP

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      #3 TrevP, Jan 12, 2017
      Last edited: Jan 12, 2017
      Cheaper than gas for sure but in Ontario the tier 2 price is .26 per minute. A 30 minute charge is close to $8 as long as you get full kW from the SC. Usually when they're full you're going to get half that charge rate so twice as long at the same price.

      I never expected it to be free but it sure puts our electricity prices into focus.

      Toronto to Montreal for about $10 isn't that bad I guess. Cheaper than my Lincoln ;)
       
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      • Red Sage

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        Hmmm... So I could probably do the drive from Los Angeles to the Family Homestead in Mississippi and back, the entire round trip... For less money than I did at 33 MPG in my Accord 25 years ago? That'll do.
         
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        • Trail Runner

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          Wonderful news! I pay 6 cents per kWh with a co-op using Columbia River hydroelectric power and for all of Oregon they are charging 12 cents per Kwh. $12 for 100 kWh is very reasonable and fair for travelling longer distances. Tesla continues to impress me with their SC network!!
           
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          • MelindaV

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            Also very pleased to see they have assigned the rates by state/region and the published rates (at least related to OR/WA) is very much what I was expecting/hoping for at $0.11/Washington and $0.12/Oregon
             
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            • BigBri

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              Seems very fair to me. My electricity can be upto 18c/kwh depending on time of day and not factoring in delivery that can potentially (almost) double the cost.
               
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              • AEDennis

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                I find the rates to be fair. I have cheaper rates at home on my own solar, but the rate vs. peak summer rates is actually quite attractive in California.

                ($0.50 per kWh for peak TOU with my utility vs. $0.20 per kWh with the utility)...

                However, compared, to off-peak at $0.08 per kWh, it's higher. But one has to remember demand charges, and the like.
                 
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                • Michael Russo

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                  Looked up EU prices, ~€0.20-.25/kWh (Germany is strangely per minute?); in other words, if I calculate correctly that would mean €80-90 for 1,600 kms (i.e. 1,000 miles). That should be about half of the price of full tank of gasoline (forget diesel). So quite fine! :)
                   
                • Yanquetino

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                  I think that the new SuperCharger system is more than fair. However, I confess that I am disappointed with this restriction:

                  "Unused credits do not roll over to the next year."

                  Given human nature, I suspect most owners will thus try to use their credits before they run out every year. In today's world, IMO Tesla should encourage consumers to save energy --rather than waste it and occupy SuperChargers unnecessarily.
                   
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                  • BigBri

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                    Good point. Atleast they did make the anniversary of the car purchase as the cut off date. Imagine if it was December 31st. There'd be a mad crush to use up all credits in December.
                     
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                    • TrevP

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                      Well, we already had people abusing the free for life system and parking overnight. It's possible they did this to prevent hoarding of credits.

                      Correct, that's the best way to help spread the load instead of causing a run on Superchargers.

                      Overall I think it's a good system but there will be adjustments as we go as we're sure to run into some edge cases that weren't taken into account.
                       
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                      • AEDennis

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                        Mark,

                        I'm not as cynical as you. I just cancelled my last AT&T mobile phone with a roll-over minutes total over 5,000 minutes and have accumulated this overage for years.

                        The supercharger credits is an open liability for Tesla that's hard to value as you can see with the wide ranging costs over all the jurisdictions that the prices cover, Tesla needs to focus on surviving and thriving to continue their leadership in the EV world and it's fair to expire unused credits. What I'm hoping for is the ability to pool credits within a family with multiple vehicles or to transfer credits between accounts of users. Thereby creating a "secondary" market for friends and family who may be traveling together. (My mom will never use those thousand mile SC credit, she doesn't like to drive long distances and may be a passenger when we drive. I'd like to see her transfer her credits to us when we use the 3 for such travel.)

                        PS: glad to see you on the forum.
                         
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                        • Mike

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                          Trev,

                          As a fellow Ontarion, I'm actually suprised the upper tier price is only 26 cents a minute, all in.

                          Our last 12 months of Hydro bills, with all taxes, fees and surcharges, works out to 25 cents (!) per kWh (I term this my 'street rate' for hydro).

                          And in your case, you'll depart the GTA with a full battery, so it may well be cheaper to get to Montreal than 10 bucks....
                           
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                          • Red Sage

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                            #15 Red Sage, Jan 13, 2017
                            Last edited: Jan 13, 2017
                            Uhm... What 'Pay Per Use' System...?
                             
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                            • Mad Hungarian

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                              While I have no problem per se with pay-as-you-go, I find the Quebec rates ridiculous.
                              $0.26 for Tier 2?????
                              Our top residential rate here is $0.08/kW/h and it can be as low as $0.04.
                              What the hell???
                              The closest U.S. comparison I could find was Washington state, where residential rates average $0.085, and they get a flat rate of $0.11 at the Supercharger. Now THAT seems reasonable.
                               
                            • MelindaV

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                              #17 MelindaV, Jan 13, 2017
                              Last edited: Jan 13, 2017
                              The tier pricing is by time though, not kw.

                              So if assuming an 'empty' 85 sits at a SC for 30 minutes and gets a ¾ charge.
                              In WA that would be $7.01USD.
                              In QC, that 30 minutes worse case would be $7.80 CAD assuming you are only at the higher tier two. ($5.95 USD).
                               
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                              • AEDennis

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                                From what I can see on the US locations, the multiple-tiered rates are used on the per minute locations... Running at Tier 2 means that you're adding more kWh per minute than at Tier 1... So, the numbers are not equal. For those locations that are per minute it's Tesla's attempt at providing the Supercharging in a market where they can't sell by the kWh, so they have to approximate their rates.

                                It's been my experience that very little time is spent at Tier 2 speeds (above 60kW) due to tapering.
                                 
                              • Mad Hungarian

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                                Hmmm... I should learn to read first and complain later :) Thank you both for the clarifications.
                                I still find it very odd though that we're being charged the same SC rates as Ontario when our kW/h rates are about 50% lower here. Then again if the mere announcement of this program was what caused the stock price to shoot up another $7 today I should maybe just shut the hell up as that about covered what I'd likely pay in travelling SC fees for the next few years.
                                 
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                                • Michael Russo

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                                  Apparently it is even better than that... :)

                                  Quoting the T≡SLA team:
                                  'To put the affordability of Supercharging into perspective, customers will pay about $15 for a road trip from San Francisco to Los Angeles, about $120 from Los Angeles to New York, about €60 from Paris to Rome, and about ¥400 from Beijing to Shanghai.'

                                  Now that is definitely fair... LOVE IT!! :cool:
                                  https://www.tesla.com/fr_FR/blog/building-supercharger-network-future?redirect=no
                                   
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