Tesla to make a product announcement at noon PT [3pm ET]

  • If you haven't taken delivery yet or plan on ordering you can still get the 6 months of FREE Supercharging only until December 31st all Model 3s now qualify! Call or email your Tesla delivery advisor and give them our code

TrevP

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#3
It's a press event embargoed until 12:30 PST. Tesla will post a blog on their site afterwards.

You're going to be blown away.
 

TrevP

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#5
Nailed it ! :)

https://www.tesla.com/en_CA/blog/new-tesla-model-s-now-quickest-production-car-world

P100D it is. 315 miles of range. 0-60 in 2.5 seconds.

A few more quotes from the press call:

For the 100 kWh battery pack, Tesla is using the same battery cell, but a new module and pack architecture, new cooling system and electronics. CTO JB Straubel described the upgrade as a “significant change”.

The exterior of the pack is the same, which means that it is available as an upgrade. Existing P90D with Ludicrous mode owners can upgrade to a P100D for a $20,000 fee. It is not a software upgrade. The actual pack will be replaced and the used 90kWh pack will have to be recycled.

Tesla customers who have ordered a P90D with Ludicrous mode, but have not taken delivery of their vehicle may choose to upgrade to P100D for $10,000.

Musk made it clear during a press conference that this upgrade will be the limit of the current pack form with the current battery cell. Any upgrade in energy capacity would only become available with the new battery cell.

“We are quite close to theoretical limit,” Musk said

Tesla is also introducing the new Tesla Premium Seats, originally available in the Model X, to the Model S, but only for the P90D and P100D.

The part about the battery cell being the same as it is now (18650) is exactly what I've been saying all along. The current pack cannot handle the new 2170 format without a complete redesign. Elon's quote above indicates they are precisely working on this for the next iteration of the Model S. Until that is ready Model 3 will get the lion's share of the 2170 cell coming out of the Gigafactory.
 
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garsh

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#7
And there it is:


The pics are uploaded to Tesla's website, but don't appear to be showing up on the configuration page yet. I expect that to be fixed soon.
 

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#8
Nailed it ! :)

https://www.tesla.com/en_CA/blog/new-tesla-model-s-now-quickest-production-car-world

P100D it is. 315 miles of range. 0-60 in 2.5 seconds.

A few more quotes from the press call:

For the 100 kWh battery pack, Tesla is using the same battery cell, but a new module and pack architecture, new cooling system and electronics. CTO JB Straubel described the upgrade as a “significant change”.

The exterior of the pack is the same, which means that it is available as an upgrade. Existing P90D with Ludicrous mode owners can upgrade to a P100D for a $20,000 fee. It is not a software upgrade. The actual pack will be replaced and the used 90kWh pack will have to be recycled.

Tesla customers who have ordered a P90D with Ludicrous mode, but have not taken delivery of their vehicle may choose to upgrade to P100D for $10,000.

Musk made it clear during a press conference that this upgrade will be the limit of the current pack form with the current battery cell. Any upgrade in energy capacity would only become available with the new battery cell.

“We are quite close to theoretical limit,” Musk said

Tesla is also introducing the new Tesla Premium Seats, originally available in the Model X, to the Model S, but only for the P90D and P100D.

The part about the battery cell being the same as it is now (18650) is exactly what I've been saying all along. The current pack cannot handle the new 2170 format without a complete redesign. Elon's quote above indicates they are precisely working on this for the next iteration of the Model S. Until that is ready Model 3 will get the lion's share of the 2170 cell coming out of the Gigafactory.
According to my primitive math skills, the 18650 takes 165,405 cubic millimetres while the 2170 has a volume of 259,771 mm3, a 57% increase. So obviously a big re-design to fit in the same space.
 

garsh

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#9
And the ludicrous version, which is the one they're actually now showing on the config page:

 

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#10
So Trevor, what are your thoughts on extrapolating this "maxed out" battery cell design against the new format that we will see with the Model 3? Obviously fewer actual cells in the pack due to space and larger cell size but what do you think it might pan out to mean moving forward as far as possible range and acceleration?

Dan
 

garsh

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#11
For the 100 kWh battery pack, Tesla is using the same battery cell, but a new module and pack architecture, new cooling system and electronics. CTO JB Straubel described the upgrade as a “significant change”.
I'm very curious to find out what they've changed for the cooling system. One of the downsides of batteries is that they have a very narrow preferred operating temperature range (compared to an internal combustion engine). Since it sounds like they've not changed the radiator/heat exchanger, I'm guessing they've designed a better way to pull heat from the batteries, rather than simply up-sizing the cooling system.
 

MelindaV

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#12
There's a thread on tmc where someone has done some math and made and guess that each set of cells connected in parallel were increased to give a total cell count of 7892 up from 7104 with the added cells fit in due to cell and cooling layout efficiencies.
His overall math seemed off (notes ea parallel of cells increased from 74 to 86 for +8 * 6 series * 16 modules I get 768 but 7892-7104 = 788) but even with the inconsistencies, expect he has the general right idea
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/my-take-on-the-new-100kwh-pack.76065/
 

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#13
JB mentioned the modules are completely new along with the cooling system so I think they're able to redesign the layout to squeeze more cells into the 16 modules. I haven't done the math to figure out what is required to get the extra 10% energy density.

Going forward however this is the last major change we will see to the current Model S battery pack. They will use the 2170 cell eventually in a completely new pack in the next iteration. At they rate they're going that would probably be sometime later next year.
 

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#14
So Trevor, what are your thoughts on extrapolating this "maxed out" battery cell design against the new format that we will see with the Model 3? Obviously fewer actual cells in the pack due to space and larger cell size but what do you think it might pan out to mean moving forward as far as possible range and acceleration?

Dan
In some ways they've probably used things they've learned from the Model 3 pack design for the new modules. We won't know for sure until Model 3 is actually in production and we get to see the insides of the battery after a salvage car is picked up and torn down and compared to the 100kWh pack. Comparing is the only way to know for sure what, if any, design leverage has been employed between the cars.

What I do know is that Model 3 is completely new from the ground up: cells, modules, electrics, packs, cooling *everything*. It's the only way they can optimize for cost reductions.
 

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#15
In some ways they've probably used things they've learned from the Model 3 pack design for the new modules. We won't know for sure until Model 3 is actually in production and we get to see the insides of the battery after a salvage car is picked up and torn down and compared to the 100kWh pack. Comparing is the only way to know for sure what, if any, design leverage has been employed between the cars.

What I do know is that Model 3 is completely new from the ground up: cells, modules, electrics, packs, cooling *everything*. It's the only way they can optimize for cost reductions.
I just wonder if the combination of the new technology might add up to a 300 mile range Model 3. Granted, it would be the top of the line version I'm sure and at a significantly higher cost, but what a huge feather in their cap if they can somehow pull it off.

Dan
 

TrevP

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#16
Given the higher energy capacity of the 2170 cell and a battery pack about 90% the size of a Model S I'd say it's entirely possible to meet the same numbers.