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Which is better?

Discussion in 'Electric Vehicles' started by Red, Apr 24, 2016.

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  1. Red

    Red
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    Is it better for the battery if you charge as slow as possible (Lvl 1) whenever possible? Or does it not matter at all when it comes to battery degradation? Thx.
     
  2. AEDennis

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    It doesn't seem to matter on Model S. The Roadster's calculations make it seem to be better to charge at a slower rate. But that may be an illusion.
     
  3. Skione65

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    Red,

    I can't answer that as I have no experience with EV's yet. But I have researched and read that as far as charging it is best for battery life to NOT charge to 100% (only very infrequently if needed for extremely long road trips to the max capability of range if needed) but to charge to around 70-80% battery capacity for battery life. Is that correct AEDennis or TeslaLiving?

    Ski
     
  4. AEDennis

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    I often charge to 90% on S (56k miles and degradation has slowed, 253 max miles now and 265 originally.)

    On the Roadster there are two settings, Standard and Range Charge. Standard is a setting to 80%.
     
  5. Skione65

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    AEDennis,
    I'm familiar with the range charge all Byorns videos. I was thinking about this yesterday while cutting grass yesterday... (not like I'm obsessing like MelV!!! ;)
     
  6. Skione65

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    Took too long to write post and timed out! Lol
     
  7. Skione65

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    AEDennis,

    I'm familiar with the range charge all Byorns videos. I was thinking about this yesterday while cutting grass yesterday... (not like I'm obsessing like MelV!!! ;) But I was thinking of battery life, battery range decrease, and cost of battery replacement because I was looking at used S's, mileage etc.
    What year is your S or Roadster and what % loss in battery life have you experienced during your ownership? From what I gather S's that are around 2-3 years old have lost around 15-20% battery life and range....could that be correct? I saw you gave numbers above but what is your thinking with percentage lost? I'm also wondering in relation to batteries how long most plan to own their M3's and when we can anticipate replacing the batteries and has Elon even addressed that cost?
    What drove all this thought (obsessing I know! :) is are these S sales due due possible cost of battery replacement and unloading the car before that cost which can't be cheap. Because the traditional idea of offloading a car before mileage gets too high is moot with a Tesla (even though I understand there is wear and tear on drive trains).....but not as impactful,as on an ICE vehicle.......


    Ski
     
  8. AEDennis

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    The Roadster is a Signature Roadster, meaning it was among the first 100 made. All of these were built and delivered in 2008.

    We are the second owner and we've lost between 8-10 miles since picking it up in 2013.
     
  9. Skione65

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    AEDennis,

    Wow......that's great. Not much loss at all and definitely changes my concerns for the good.....as far as battery life and apparently consumer concerns are unfounded, especially if the roadster is 8 years old with who knows how much mileage.......and use.
    Bodes well for the M3....especially of Elon goes with Packs as opposed to cells with the new battery technology at the Gigafactory.

    Ski
     
  10. Red

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    #10 Red, Apr 25, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2016
    I knew about limiting the charge to 70% for day to day use. However I am wondering if I can extend the life even more by simply charging to that 70% as slow as possible (Lvl 1). Less stress on the batteries I would imagine.
     
  11. MelindaV

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    I can't speak to if slower charging is better for the batteries, but based on Tesla's Model S power cost calculator, the slower options cost more than the faster.

    based on 40 miles per day, $0.12/kwh:
    110V 12A outlet uses 17.7kwh = $2.12 (in 12:16hr)
    240V NEMA 14-50 uses 13.2kwh = $1.58 (in 1:21hr)

    So the faster saves $0.54 per day, over a year $197.10
     
  12. AEDennis

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    I charge at 30A and 40A in each car. Basically the fastest 240V that each car's nearest charger can support (I have a legacy J1772 30A charger that I used with BMW)
     
  13. AEDennis

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    Granted, the Roadster had 2,220 miles when we picked it up as CPO in September 2013, almost five years from when the car was produced.
     
  14. LUXMAN

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    Ski,
    This might be a bit late of a reply to your post, but thought I would share some of my experiences with the LEAF battery. I had a 2013 under lease for 2 years. After 30,000 miles, I did not see an apreachable range difference. That is not very scientific I know.
    So I have had my 2015 Leaf since late March 2015. I invested in an OBD WiFi reader that transmits to my iPhone and works with a cool app called LEAFSpy that reads all kinds of info. From Tire pressure to battery capacity to health of the Battery. Now I have no illusions that the Leaf battery is of the same quality as the Telsa cells and they are a different format as well. Anyway. After 15,400 miles, the leaf is holding a 97.6% charge and a 97% health. So based on the EPA rated range of 84, I have lost 2 miles of range.
    I have driven the leaf 98 miles before on one charge, so based on driving habits and how much you push it, you can get better than their numbers anyway.
    As far as Li Batteries go, the decline in capacity is steeper in the beginning and then levels out with age. So while I will see more losses with the LEAF battery, I am fairly confident that they will be minimal in the long run and it will be great around town car for years to come as I will be babying my model 3 and wiping it down with cloth diapers :D
     
  15. TrevP

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    This is true with Tesla as well. Battery pack degradation is not a linear curve as most would think.

    Here's a graph that shows degradation of Model S over time with a survey of owners

    [​IMG]
     
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  16. Skione65

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    LUX,

    Better late than never! Thanks for taking the time my friend. All great info. After much research I have gleaned the same. It appears MS battery degradation and loss is minimal in the grand scheme of things which bodes well for the M3. I have read as well which is confirmed by Trevs graph that lithium ion degradation is not linear but greater at first then tapers off, and the loss is minimal.

    Love your quote 'Babying' your M3 and "wiping it down with cloth diapers"!!! As I'll be doing the same. :)

    Ski
     
  17. LUXMAN

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    Ski.
    Also regarding tesla degrad...a guy I know has a 60kw S and has lost 8 miles of range over 120,000 miles and 3.5 years

    Yeah, I've done that with all my cars through the years and they have all lasted a long time and were reliable except that lemon of a Dodge we had for a couple of years :mad:
    In the case of the model 3, I may need a car cover for it in the garage too. As I don't want anybody scratching it passing by :eek:
     
  18. LUXMAN

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  19. Red

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    All this info is good to know. Thanks to everybody who posted.
     
  20. TitanG

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    Trev, do you happen to know what type of fit that is? Maybe negative exponential or negative logarithm?

    Apart from the math, I wonder if this degradation is the same across all EV's. Tesla has different battery packs and different software than the others, so I wonder if that has an effect on battery degradation more than the Lithium-ion chemistry.
     

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